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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Acupuncture Anesthesia&#8221;: A Proclamation from Chairman Mao (Part I)</title>
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	<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131</link>
	<description>Exploring issues and controversies in the relationship between science and medicine</description>
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		<title>By: Science-Based Medicine &#187; &#8216;Acupuncture Anesthesia&#8217; Redux: another Skeptic and an Unfortunate Misportrayal at the NCCAM</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131&#038;cpage=1#comment-28425</link>
		<dc:creator>Science-Based Medicine &#187; &#8216;Acupuncture Anesthesia&#8217; Redux: another Skeptic and an Unfortunate Misportrayal at the NCCAM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jul 2009 04:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] to some of the early reports by Westerners, these statements were cautious. Knowing what we now know</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to some of the early reports by Westerners, these statements were cautious. Knowing what we now know</p>
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		<title>By: Science-Based Medicine &#187; &#8220;Acupuncture Anesthesia&#8221;: a Proclamation from Chairman Mao (Part IV)</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131&#038;cpage=1#comment-21964</link>
		<dc:creator>Science-Based Medicine &#187; &#8220;Acupuncture Anesthesia&#8221;: a Proclamation from Chairman Mao (Part IV)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:26:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131#comment-21964</guid>
		<description>[...] Languages Press in 1972, smack in the middle of the Cultural Revolution and only one year after James Reston&#8217;s trip to China. It is the epitome of &#8216;revolutionary&#8217; literature, as these excerpts and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Languages Press in 1972, smack in the middle of the Cultural Revolution and only one year after James Reston&#8217;s trip to China. It is the epitome of &#8216;revolutionary&#8217; literature, as these excerpts and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Science-Based Medicine &#187; &#8220;Acupuncture Anesthesia&#8221;: a Proclamation from Chairman Mao (Part III)</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131&#038;cpage=1#comment-20877</link>
		<dc:creator>Science-Based Medicine &#187; &#8220;Acupuncture Anesthesia&#8221;: a Proclamation from Chairman Mao (Part III)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jun 2009 06:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131#comment-20877</guid>
		<description>[...] books about &#8216;Traditional&#8217; Chinese Medicine, written by Westerners in the aftermath of James Reston&#8217;s acupuncture experience, were based on PRC-generated textbooks–and were therefore less about [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] books about &#8216;Traditional&#8217; Chinese Medicine, written by Westerners in the aftermath of James Reston&#8217;s acupuncture experience, were based on PRC-generated textbooks–and were therefore less about [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Science-Based Medicine &#187; &#8220;Acupuncture Anesthesia&#8221;: A Proclamation from Chairman Mao (Part II)</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131&#038;cpage=1#comment-20050</link>
		<dc:creator>Science-Based Medicine &#187; &#8220;Acupuncture Anesthesia&#8221;: A Proclamation from Chairman Mao (Part II)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 06:00:31 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] the time of the burgeoning Western interest in acupuncture in the early 1970s, Dr. Bonica became the Chairman of the Ad Hoc Committee on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the time of the burgeoning Western interest in acupuncture in the early 1970s, Dr. Bonica became the Chairman of the Ad Hoc Committee on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Acupuncture is Bogus (2) &#124; JimmyTap</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131&#038;cpage=1#comment-19463</link>
		<dc:creator>Acupuncture is Bogus (2) &#124; JimmyTap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 May 2009 21:21:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131#comment-19463</guid>
		<description>[...] Here is an article that thoroughly debunks the acupuncture as anesthesia myth. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Here is an article that thoroughly debunks the acupuncture as anesthesia myth. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jules</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131&#038;cpage=1#comment-19411</link>
		<dc:creator>Jules</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 May 2009 06:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>In India it is fairly common for surgeons to perform open-heart surgery while the patient is conscious.  Supposedly it reduces their recovery time and makes them feel better.  

I&#039;ve always been a little skeptical of these acupuncture claims--I mean, I&#039;ve known what a runner&#039;s high can do for small amounts of pain, so it sort of makes sense that acupuncture &lt;i&gt;might&lt;/i&gt; offer &lt;i&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; relief for minor aches and pains (if it works at all).  But major surgery?  Yeah...dope me up with fentanyl, please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In India it is fairly common for surgeons to perform open-heart surgery while the patient is conscious.  Supposedly it reduces their recovery time and makes them feel better.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always been a little skeptical of these acupuncture claims&#8211;I mean, I&#8217;ve known what a runner&#8217;s high can do for small amounts of pain, so it sort of makes sense that acupuncture <i>might</i> offer <i>some</i> relief for minor aches and pains (if it works at all).  But major surgery?  Yeah&#8230;dope me up with fentanyl, please.</p>
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		<title>By: Kimball Atwood</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131&#038;cpage=1#comment-19399</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimball Atwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 19:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131#comment-19399</guid>
		<description>@Prometheus:

Very interesting points. First let me answer the last one: yes, it is necessary to open one&#039;s mind to the possibility of deliberate deceit, and the failure to do so has clearly fooled at least some Westerners, as mentioned &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=456&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; in regard to &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://books.google.com/books?id=DgFA-kVkuZEC&amp;dq=%22Encounters+with+Qi%22&amp;printsec=frontcover&amp;source=bn&amp;hl=en&amp;ei=ulcMSouyEISi8QSTxNzQDw&amp;sa=X&amp;oi=book_result&amp;ct=result&amp;resnum=4&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Qi Gong Masters&lt;/a&gt;.&quot; I can&#039;t help but imagine, when I read about &#039;acupuncture anesthesia&#039; demonstrations, the patients having had local anesthetics injected prior to appearing in the operating rooms---not that this was necessarily the case. 

Regarding consciousness during cardiopulmonary bypass: yes, it almost certainly can occur, as evidenced by studies of intra-op awareness and/or recall in cardiac surgery patients. Unfortunately I can&#039;t find the citation in a quick search, but during the 1980s I remember reading a report from Australia in which an alarmingly large fraction (?15%) of patients who&#039;d been anesthetized with high-dose narcotics for open heart surgery had been able, during CPB, to respond to a simple command such as &quot;squeeze my fingers twice if you can hear me&quot;--although most did not recall this after surgery. A quick PubMed search today gives &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12017384?ordinalpos=26&amp;itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt; and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.cja-jca.org/cgi/reprint/40/10/922?view=long&amp;pmid=8222030&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this&lt;/a&gt;, although the latter does not clearly demonstrate awareness during CPB per se. 

Regarding blood flow during CPB, there is no question that it can be adequate to maintain normal function of organs, including brain, that have high oxygen requirements. The simple &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peristaltic_pump&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;roller pumps&lt;/a&gt; that were probably used even in the &#039;70s in China were and are capable of flows much greater than usual cardiac outputs, even via the fem-fem route. You are absolutely correct that post-pump &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11770027?ordinalpos=1&amp;itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&amp;linkpos=3&amp;log$=relatedreviews&amp;logdbfrom=pubmed&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;CNS impairment&lt;/a&gt; has been a problem, but it is usually not due to hypoperfusion. Rather, it has been associated with gas emboli and debris emboli, clots because of inadequate anticoagulation, and microaggregates of blood elements even in the face of adequate anticoagulation---more common in the early years when &#039;bubble oxygenators&#039; were used, later to be replaced by membrane oxygenators; all of which are presumed to result in microinfarcts. It&#039;s also associated with age, duration of CPB (probably by allowing more chance for those bad things to occur, but possibly also by speculative mechanisms such as the lack of pulsatile blood flow), and &#039;activation of leukocytes,&#039; inflammatory states, endotoxin release from the gut, and more. 

Regarding anesthesia to reduce brain oxygen demand during CPB, there was a time when that was tried (usually via high doses of barbiturates or isoflurane to abolish brain electrical activity), as you&#039;ve written, but it was largely experimental and as far as I know did not pan out (I haven&#039;t done cardiac anesthesia since the early &#039;90s; I welcome any reader who&#039;s current in the field to let us know). Cooling the body during CPB has also been used for decades and reduces oxygen requirements of all tissues, including brain. Its main rationale, however, is not to &#039;protect&#039; brain &lt;em&gt;per se&lt;/em&gt;, but to reduce the necessary blood flows during CPB so as to limit damage caused by the various factors already mentioned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Prometheus:</p>
<p>Very interesting points. First let me answer the last one: yes, it is necessary to open one&#8217;s mind to the possibility of deliberate deceit, and the failure to do so has clearly fooled at least some Westerners, as mentioned <a href="http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=456" rel="nofollow">here</a> in regard to &#8220;<a href="http://books.google.com/books?id=DgFA-kVkuZEC&#038;dq=%22Encounters+with+Qi%22&#038;printsec=frontcover&#038;source=bn&#038;hl=en&#038;ei=ulcMSouyEISi8QSTxNzQDw&#038;sa=X&#038;oi=book_result&#038;ct=result&#038;resnum=4" rel="nofollow">Qi Gong Masters</a>.&#8221; I can&#8217;t help but imagine, when I read about &#8216;acupuncture anesthesia&#8217; demonstrations, the patients having had local anesthetics injected prior to appearing in the operating rooms&#8212;not that this was necessarily the case. </p>
<p>Regarding consciousness during cardiopulmonary bypass: yes, it almost certainly can occur, as evidenced by studies of intra-op awareness and/or recall in cardiac surgery patients. Unfortunately I can&#8217;t find the citation in a quick search, but during the 1980s I remember reading a report from Australia in which an alarmingly large fraction (?15%) of patients who&#8217;d been anesthetized with high-dose narcotics for open heart surgery had been able, during CPB, to respond to a simple command such as &#8220;squeeze my fingers twice if you can hear me&#8221;&#8211;although most did not recall this after surgery. A quick PubMed search today gives <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12017384?ordinalpos=26&#038;itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DefaultReportPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum" rel="nofollow">this</a> and <a href="http://www.cja-jca.org/cgi/reprint/40/10/922?view=long&#038;pmid=8222030" rel="nofollow">this</a>, although the latter does not clearly demonstrate awareness during CPB per se. </p>
<p>Regarding blood flow during CPB, there is no question that it can be adequate to maintain normal function of organs, including brain, that have high oxygen requirements. The simple <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peristaltic_pump" rel="nofollow">roller pumps</a> that were probably used even in the &#8217;70s in China were and are capable of flows much greater than usual cardiac outputs, even via the fem-fem route. You are absolutely correct that post-pump <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11770027?ordinalpos=1&#038;itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&#038;linkpos=3&#038;log$=relatedreviews&#038;logdbfrom=pubmed" rel="nofollow">CNS impairment</a> has been a problem, but it is usually not due to hypoperfusion. Rather, it has been associated with gas emboli and debris emboli, clots because of inadequate anticoagulation, and microaggregates of blood elements even in the face of adequate anticoagulation&#8212;more common in the early years when &#8216;bubble oxygenators&#8217; were used, later to be replaced by membrane oxygenators; all of which are presumed to result in microinfarcts. It&#8217;s also associated with age, duration of CPB (probably by allowing more chance for those bad things to occur, but possibly also by speculative mechanisms such as the lack of pulsatile blood flow), and &#8216;activation of leukocytes,&#8217; inflammatory states, endotoxin release from the gut, and more. </p>
<p>Regarding anesthesia to reduce brain oxygen demand during CPB, there was a time when that was tried (usually via high doses of barbiturates or isoflurane to abolish brain electrical activity), as you&#8217;ve written, but it was largely experimental and as far as I know did not pan out (I haven&#8217;t done cardiac anesthesia since the early &#8217;90s; I welcome any reader who&#8217;s current in the field to let us know). Cooling the body during CPB has also been used for decades and reduces oxygen requirements of all tissues, including brain. Its main rationale, however, is not to &#8216;protect&#8217; brain <em>per se</em>, but to reduce the necessary blood flows during CPB so as to limit damage caused by the various factors already mentioned.</p>
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		<title>By: KB</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131&#038;cpage=1#comment-19397</link>
		<dc:creator>KB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 19:26:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131#comment-19397</guid>
		<description>This article is interesting to me, because the same day it was posted I went to a talk about acupuncture.  The speaker&#039;s very first point was that in the 1970&#039;s, James Reston wrote an article describing his emergency appendectomy in China, where he received &quot;general anesthesia&quot; for the surgery and &quot;acupuncture alone for the post-operative pain.&quot;  I was surprised that the speaker used the article in her talk without reading it.  (Or reading it carefully, at least.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article is interesting to me, because the same day it was posted I went to a talk about acupuncture.  The speaker&#8217;s very first point was that in the 1970&#8217;s, James Reston wrote an article describing his emergency appendectomy in China, where he received &#8220;general anesthesia&#8221; for the surgery and &#8220;acupuncture alone for the post-operative pain.&#8221;  I was surprised that the speaker used the article in her talk without reading it.  (Or reading it carefully, at least.)</p>
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		<title>By: Joe</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131&#038;cpage=1#comment-19394</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 16:44:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131#comment-19394</guid>
		<description>One can read Sampson&#039;s and Posner&#039;s take on Rosenfeld’s claims for heart surgery under acupuncture here: http://www.csicop.org/si/9907/news.html  where it is suggested that he may have witnessed a sham operation.  

Patrick Wall (MD) writes in his book “Pain” (Columbia U., 2000) about witnessing 10 surgeries under “acupuncture anesthesia” in the 1970s.  He noted that the patients were all volunteers (most patients prefer drug-based anesthesia) and were strictly prepared for the procedure; he likened it to hypnosis.  Narcotics and local anesthetics were used in 8 cases, making it difficult to assess acupuncture.  Of the 2 without adjunct drugs, one woman had her femoral artery “explored and cannulated &lt;i&gt;before&lt;/i&gt; the needling started” [emphasis in original].  He took that to mean she was predisposed to tolerate the ultimate surgery.  The second, drugless patient came to his senses shortly before the surgery was completed.  Suffice it to say the end of the procedure, with orderlies restraining the patient who was crying in pain, was not nice.  

Finally, there is Barry Beyerstein’s account of an operation in China throughout which the patient babbled softly and the official interpreter translated it as “that tickles …”.  Afterwards, Barry’s own interpreter told him the patient was begging them to stop the pain; but she was too drugged to really defend herself.  [Sorry, I don’t have a citation for that.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One can read Sampson&#8217;s and Posner&#8217;s take on Rosenfeld’s claims for heart surgery under acupuncture here: <a href="http://www.csicop.org/si/9907/news.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.csicop.org/si/9907/news.html</a>  where it is suggested that he may have witnessed a sham operation.  </p>
<p>Patrick Wall (MD) writes in his book “Pain” (Columbia U., 2000) about witnessing 10 surgeries under “acupuncture anesthesia” in the 1970s.  He noted that the patients were all volunteers (most patients prefer drug-based anesthesia) and were strictly prepared for the procedure; he likened it to hypnosis.  Narcotics and local anesthetics were used in 8 cases, making it difficult to assess acupuncture.  Of the 2 without adjunct drugs, one woman had her femoral artery “explored and cannulated <i>before</i> the needling started” [emphasis in original].  He took that to mean she was predisposed to tolerate the ultimate surgery.  The second, drugless patient came to his senses shortly before the surgery was completed.  Suffice it to say the end of the procedure, with orderlies restraining the patient who was crying in pain, was not nice.  </p>
<p>Finally, there is Barry Beyerstein’s account of an operation in China throughout which the patient babbled softly and the official interpreter translated it as “that tickles …”.  Afterwards, Barry’s own interpreter told him the patient was begging them to stop the pain; but she was too drugged to really defend herself.  [Sorry, I don’t have a citation for that.]</p>
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		<title>By: Prometheus</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131&#038;cpage=1#comment-19373</link>
		<dc:creator>Prometheus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 17:43:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131#comment-19373</guid>
		<description>Forgive me if my medical knowledge is a bit weak, but is it realistic to expect that even &lt;i&gt;modern&lt;/i&gt; cardiopulmonary bypass would provide enough blood flow to the brain to maintain consciousness? Let alone cardiopulmonary bypass technology available in China in the 1970&#039;s?

I ask this because several years ago I was involved in a study of the brain response to lowered perfusion during cardiopulmonary bypass. At the time - the early 1990&#039;s - patients were anesthetised not only to eliminate pain but also because it reduced the oxygen demand by the brain to its lowest possible level. Even so, patients often had &quot;post-pump&quot; changes in their memory, reasoning and intellectual performance. 

It seems incredible (in the sense of &quot;not credible&quot;) that &quot;fem-fem&quot; bypass - which is less effective than intrathoracic bypass, or so I was told - would be enough to maintain &lt;i&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; level of consciousness.

Rather than trying to find a &quot;natural&quot; explanation for the observations, we should consider the possibility that the Chinese government was actively deceiving the Western visitors in order to support their use of acupuncture and other &quot;Traditional Chinese Medicine&quot; remedies for &quot;the masses&quot; instead of modern medicine. 

Once you open your mind to the possibility of deliberate deceit, it becomes &lt;i&gt;much&lt;/i&gt; easier to explain.

Prometheus</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgive me if my medical knowledge is a bit weak, but is it realistic to expect that even <i>modern</i> cardiopulmonary bypass would provide enough blood flow to the brain to maintain consciousness? Let alone cardiopulmonary bypass technology available in China in the 1970&#8217;s?</p>
<p>I ask this because several years ago I was involved in a study of the brain response to lowered perfusion during cardiopulmonary bypass. At the time &#8211; the early 1990&#8217;s &#8211; patients were anesthetised not only to eliminate pain but also because it reduced the oxygen demand by the brain to its lowest possible level. Even so, patients often had &#8220;post-pump&#8221; changes in their memory, reasoning and intellectual performance. </p>
<p>It seems incredible (in the sense of &#8220;not credible&#8221;) that &#8220;fem-fem&#8221; bypass &#8211; which is less effective than intrathoracic bypass, or so I was told &#8211; would be enough to maintain <i>any</i> level of consciousness.</p>
<p>Rather than trying to find a &#8220;natural&#8221; explanation for the observations, we should consider the possibility that the Chinese government was actively deceiving the Western visitors in order to support their use of acupuncture and other &#8220;Traditional Chinese Medicine&#8221; remedies for &#8220;the masses&#8221; instead of modern medicine. </p>
<p>Once you open your mind to the possibility of deliberate deceit, it becomes <i>much</i> easier to explain.</p>
<p>Prometheus</p>
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		<title>By: pickmeup</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131&#038;cpage=1#comment-19361</link>
		<dc:creator>pickmeup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 13:09:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=131#comment-19361</guid>
		<description>Really CAM can be traced back to a single event?  I thought all of the current interest had to with the failing healthcare system of the United States.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really CAM can be traced back to a single event?  I thought all of the current interest had to with the failing healthcare system of the United States.</p>
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