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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Integrative Medicine Experts&#8221;: Another Barrier to Effective Discipline</title>
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	<description>Exploring issues and controversies in the relationship between science and medicine</description>
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		<title>By: Science-Based Medicine &#187; A New Twist for Autism: A Bogus &#8220;Biomedical&#8221; Board</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272&#038;cpage=1#comment-17723</link>
		<dc:creator>Science-Based Medicine &#187; A New Twist for Autism: A Bogus &#8220;Biomedical&#8221; Board</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 01:42:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] “Integrative Medicine Experts”: Another Barrier to Effective Discipline [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] “Integrative Medicine Experts”: Another Barrier to Effective Discipline [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chiropractor Back Blog &#187; Science-Based Medicine » “Integrative Medicine Experts”: Another &#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272&#038;cpage=1#comment-14142</link>
		<dc:creator>Chiropractor Back Blog &#187; Science-Based Medicine » “Integrative Medicine Experts”: Another &#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 20:47:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272#comment-14142</guid>
		<description>[...] DrErika posted a noteworthy aricle today onHere&#8217;s a small snippetThese include training for medical, chiropractic and acupuncture students, as well as for residents and fellowships in integrative medicine. He is a member of the working group on curricular reform for integrative medicine at Albert Einstein College of Medicine. &#8230;. When the state does something, the people performing the task are rewarded/punished not for the quality of their work but based on criteria that are largely orthogonal to the quality of their work. &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] DrErika posted a noteworthy aricle today onHere&#8217;s a small snippetThese include training for medical, chiropractic and acupuncture students, as well as for residents and fellowships in integrative medicine. He is a member of the working group on curricular reform for integrative medicine at Albert Einstein College of Medicine. &#8230;. When the state does something, the people performing the task are rewarded/punished not for the quality of their work but based on criteria that are largely orthogonal to the quality of their work. &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Science-Based Medicine &#187; The &#8220;Gonzalez Trial&#8221; for Pancreatic Cancer: Outcome Revealed</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272&#038;cpage=1#comment-10872</link>
		<dc:creator>Science-Based Medicine &#187; The &#8220;Gonzalez Trial&#8221; for Pancreatic Cancer: Outcome Revealed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 28 Nov 2008 16:35:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] series of posts also argued what was later summarized here: that, for clear-cut reasons,</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] series of posts also argued what was later summarized here: that, for clear-cut reasons,</p>
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		<title>By: Kimball Atwood</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272&#038;cpage=1#comment-10569</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimball Atwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 22:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272#comment-10569</guid>
		<description>Peter: if, by registration, you mean some form of regulation, the best I can offer you regarding patient safety is here: http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=143

If you mean registration without formal regulation, ie, merely a way for those who call themselves &quot;naturopaths&quot; to inform the state (which, I think, does exist in a few places), I haven&#039;t looked for information about those but I doubt that it would be possible to find accurate data. 

Regarding patterns of use in a couple of states with formal licensing acts, here are some surveys: 


http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6882/4/14


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17606541?ordinalpos=1&amp;itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&amp;linkpos=3&amp;log$=relatedarticles&amp;logdbfrom=pubmed

Here is a worrisome questionaire survey about certain patterns of use in Massachusetts, which has neither licensing nor registration of naturopaths:

http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/154/1/75

All of those survey reports were written by naturopaths or their apologists. To some extent that is worth considering when reading them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter: if, by registration, you mean some form of regulation, the best I can offer you regarding patient safety is here: <a href="http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=143" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=143</a></p>
<p>If you mean registration without formal regulation, ie, merely a way for those who call themselves &#8220;naturopaths&#8221; to inform the state (which, I think, does exist in a few places), I haven&#8217;t looked for information about those but I doubt that it would be possible to find accurate data. </p>
<p>Regarding patterns of use in a couple of states with formal licensing acts, here are some surveys: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6882/4/14" rel="nofollow">http://www.biomedcentral.com/1472-6882/4/14</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17606541?ordinalpos=1&amp;itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&amp;linkpos=3&amp;log$=relatedarticles&amp;logdbfrom=pubmed" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17606541?ordinalpos=1&amp;itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_DiscoveryPanel.Pubmed_Discovery_RA&amp;linkpos=3&amp;log$=relatedarticles&amp;logdbfrom=pubmed</a></p>
<p>Here is a worrisome questionaire survey about certain patterns of use in Massachusetts, which has neither licensing nor registration of naturopaths:</p>
<p><a href="http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/154/1/75" rel="nofollow">http://archpedi.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/154/1/75</a></p>
<p>All of those survey reports were written by naturopaths or their apologists. To some extent that is worth considering when reading them.</p>
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		<title>By: pmoran</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272&#038;cpage=1#comment-10563</link>
		<dc:creator>pmoran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 19:43:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272#comment-10563</guid>
		<description>Kimball, you mentioned in an eariler post that some states in the US have a registration scheme for naturopaths.  Is anything known about the effects of this upon patient safety, or upon patterns of use?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kimball, you mentioned in an eariler post that some states in the US have a registration scheme for naturopaths.  Is anything known about the effects of this upon patient safety, or upon patterns of use?</p>
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		<title>By: Kimball Atwood</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272&#038;cpage=1#comment-10554</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimball Atwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Nov 2008 15:55:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272#comment-10554</guid>
		<description>@tarran:

I don&#039;t howl with outrage; I agree with everything you&#039;ve written, but with caveats. What you didn&#039;t add, possibly for the sake of brevity but possibly to avoid getting too close to the feared &quot;l&quot; word, is that there would inevitably be several certification programs: SBM (ours), &quot;holistic,&quot; &quot;integrative,&quot; &quot;homeopathic,&quot; etc. Whether that would result in more or less quackery is anyone&#039;s guess; whether that would matter is a matter of opinion: if people were left to choose for themselves, without government pretending to know best, at least they wouldn&#039;t be bamboozled by government--which is worse than being bamboozled by quacks, because government ought to be trustworthy. ;-) 


Thus &lt;em&gt;caveat emptor&lt;/em&gt;, on its face, seems better than &quot;trust your government to protect you,&quot; if your government is being manipulated by the very forces that you need protection against. 

There is also the unanswerable question of &quot;which is better, greater freedom or greater safety&quot;? It is unanswerable because it is a matter of opinion, and like it or not our society has, for this moment in health care, been moving in the &quot;greater safety&quot; direction--even if that safety is, to some extent, an illusion. It is on that basis that I write my criticisms of state boards and other governmental schemes, knowing that as long as they exist we must argue for their betterment, in the midst of the typical, exasperating commotion of democracy as we currently know it here in the U-S of A. 

Getting back to the &quot;l&quot; word, moreover, there is another point that we all probably agree upon: an appropriate role of government is to prevent and prosecute fraud in the marketplace. Thus for some products in some circumstances in some markets, &lt;em&gt;caveat vendor&lt;/em&gt; takes precedence over &lt;em&gt;caveat emptor&lt;/em&gt;. I believe that health practices are among those products (a point made by &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/quacksell.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jarvis and Barrett&lt;/a&gt; years ago). The only difference between homeopathy being passed off as medicine and, say, white paint being passed off as cream, is that it takes a greater level of sophistication and technical expertise to recognize the first fraud than it does the second. What that means, of course, is that the scoundrels responsible for the first fraud--who, in most cases, lack such sophistication themselves--can more easily pull the wool over Big Brother&#039;s eyes. 

Thus we must be vigilant and fight the good fight. Government will always be uncertain about some things: who does it annoint as the expert? Politics are inevitable. I don&#039;t know whether a certification scheme would be better or worse than what we have now, and I believe it is unknowable other than by trying it. I don&#039;t think we as a society will decide to try it anytime soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@tarran:</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t howl with outrage; I agree with everything you&#8217;ve written, but with caveats. What you didn&#8217;t add, possibly for the sake of brevity but possibly to avoid getting too close to the feared &#8220;l&#8221; word, is that there would inevitably be several certification programs: SBM (ours), &#8220;holistic,&#8221; &#8220;integrative,&#8221; &#8220;homeopathic,&#8221; etc. Whether that would result in more or less quackery is anyone&#8217;s guess; whether that would matter is a matter of opinion: if people were left to choose for themselves, without government pretending to know best, at least they wouldn&#8217;t be bamboozled by government&#8211;which is worse than being bamboozled by quacks, because government ought to be trustworthy. <img src='http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Thus <em>caveat emptor</em>, on its face, seems better than &#8220;trust your government to protect you,&#8221; if your government is being manipulated by the very forces that you need protection against. </p>
<p>There is also the unanswerable question of &#8220;which is better, greater freedom or greater safety&#8221;? It is unanswerable because it is a matter of opinion, and like it or not our society has, for this moment in health care, been moving in the &#8220;greater safety&#8221; direction&#8211;even if that safety is, to some extent, an illusion. It is on that basis that I write my criticisms of state boards and other governmental schemes, knowing that as long as they exist we must argue for their betterment, in the midst of the typical, exasperating commotion of democracy as we currently know it here in the U-S of A. </p>
<p>Getting back to the &#8220;l&#8221; word, moreover, there is another point that we all probably agree upon: an appropriate role of government is to prevent and prosecute fraud in the marketplace. Thus for some products in some circumstances in some markets, <em>caveat vendor</em> takes precedence over <em>caveat emptor</em>. I believe that health practices are among those products (a point made by <a href="http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/quacksell.html" rel="nofollow">Jarvis and Barrett</a> years ago). The only difference between homeopathy being passed off as medicine and, say, white paint being passed off as cream, is that it takes a greater level of sophistication and technical expertise to recognize the first fraud than it does the second. What that means, of course, is that the scoundrels responsible for the first fraud&#8211;who, in most cases, lack such sophistication themselves&#8211;can more easily pull the wool over Big Brother&#8217;s eyes. </p>
<p>Thus we must be vigilant and fight the good fight. Government will always be uncertain about some things: who does it annoint as the expert? Politics are inevitable. I don&#8217;t know whether a certification scheme would be better or worse than what we have now, and I believe it is unknowable other than by trying it. I don&#8217;t think we as a society will decide to try it anytime soon.</p>
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		<title>By: tarran</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272&#038;cpage=1#comment-10526</link>
		<dc:creator>tarran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 18:44:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272#comment-10526</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t have much to add to the discussion except one observation.

The problem here is a nearly inevitable result of having state licensure of doctors.  Before you start howling with outrage, I want you to do a thought experiment involving a voluntary certification program for doctors, kind of like the Good housekeeping Seal of Approval.  Let us ignore all the issues of starting such a program and assume, for the sake of argument, that it is in place and established.

The program would presumably publish a list of doctors that met its approval.  Doctors would be permitted to advertise their certification to prospective patients as a way of attracting customers.  If a doctor failed to get certification, he or she could still practice medicine, albeit he would have a tougher time attracting customers without the certification.  It is even possible that his professional options would be severely constrained since no hospital would hire him without it.

However, because such a program is purely voluntary, the guy failing to get certification would have little recourse should it be denied to him.  The rules governing hearings and protests would be up to the certifying organization, and less subject to political pressure than a legislatively established organization.

Moreover, the people putting up the money to fund the organization (whether doctors paying a membership fee or hospitals wanting to assure a good supply of doctors - much like insurance companies funding Underwriter&#039;s Laboratories) would want to conserve the organizations mission since the original mission is what they are funding.

The income of the certification organization would also be dependent on how good a job doctor&#039;s customers &lt;em&gt;perceived&lt;/em&gt; it to be doing.  Thus, a certification agency that looked like it was bending over backwards to maintain the certification of a poorly performing doctor would tend to lose its reputation, resulting in a reduced value ascribed to the certification, resulting in fewer doctors seeking the certification, resulting eventually in a loss of revenue.  Moreover, one can safely assume that such a cheapening of standards or violation of its mission would anger a sufficient portion of the membership that they would publicly splinter off of the organization, resulting in a very quick feedback cycle that punishes the lowering of standards.

The state boards create a problem:
1)  They reduce the value of competing certification programs to 0.
2) They  are susceptible to political pressure by legislators who are clueless about medicine.
3) Because they have the power to prevent  a person from plying his or her trade, they have an onerous decisionmaking system that is biased towards giving people second or third chances.

The point I am getting at with this long post is that incentives matter.  When the state does something, the people performing the task are rewarded/punished not for the quality of their work but based on criteria that are largely orthogonal to the quality of their work.  Most people use the word &quot;politicization&quot; to describe this phenomenon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t have much to add to the discussion except one observation.</p>
<p>The problem here is a nearly inevitable result of having state licensure of doctors.  Before you start howling with outrage, I want you to do a thought experiment involving a voluntary certification program for doctors, kind of like the Good housekeeping Seal of Approval.  Let us ignore all the issues of starting such a program and assume, for the sake of argument, that it is in place and established.</p>
<p>The program would presumably publish a list of doctors that met its approval.  Doctors would be permitted to advertise their certification to prospective patients as a way of attracting customers.  If a doctor failed to get certification, he or she could still practice medicine, albeit he would have a tougher time attracting customers without the certification.  It is even possible that his professional options would be severely constrained since no hospital would hire him without it.</p>
<p>However, because such a program is purely voluntary, the guy failing to get certification would have little recourse should it be denied to him.  The rules governing hearings and protests would be up to the certifying organization, and less subject to political pressure than a legislatively established organization.</p>
<p>Moreover, the people putting up the money to fund the organization (whether doctors paying a membership fee or hospitals wanting to assure a good supply of doctors &#8211; much like insurance companies funding Underwriter&#8217;s Laboratories) would want to conserve the organizations mission since the original mission is what they are funding.</p>
<p>The income of the certification organization would also be dependent on how good a job doctor&#8217;s customers <em>perceived</em> it to be doing.  Thus, a certification agency that looked like it was bending over backwards to maintain the certification of a poorly performing doctor would tend to lose its reputation, resulting in a reduced value ascribed to the certification, resulting in fewer doctors seeking the certification, resulting eventually in a loss of revenue.  Moreover, one can safely assume that such a cheapening of standards or violation of its mission would anger a sufficient portion of the membership that they would publicly splinter off of the organization, resulting in a very quick feedback cycle that punishes the lowering of standards.</p>
<p>The state boards create a problem:<br />
1)  They reduce the value of competing certification programs to 0.<br />
2) They  are susceptible to political pressure by legislators who are clueless about medicine.<br />
3) Because they have the power to prevent  a person from plying his or her trade, they have an onerous decisionmaking system that is biased towards giving people second or third chances.</p>
<p>The point I am getting at with this long post is that incentives matter.  When the state does something, the people performing the task are rewarded/punished not for the quality of their work but based on criteria that are largely orthogonal to the quality of their work.  Most people use the word &#8220;politicization&#8221; to describe this phenomenon.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve S</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272&#038;cpage=1#comment-10523</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 15:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272#comment-10523</guid>
		<description>To Kimball Atwood

Thanks for the advice.  I will keep you informed.  I copy off articles from this Blog and give them to my associates.  The good news is I have started a Skeptic Society here and about half of my residents are interested and coming.  We have a small univeristy in town and a lot of the faculty from their are interested and coming, particulary from the biology department and the psychology department.  I will get that book you recommended.  Again thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To Kimball Atwood</p>
<p>Thanks for the advice.  I will keep you informed.  I copy off articles from this Blog and give them to my associates.  The good news is I have started a Skeptic Society here and about half of my residents are interested and coming.  We have a small univeristy in town and a lot of the faculty from their are interested and coming, particulary from the biology department and the psychology department.  I will get that book you recommended.  Again thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Kimball Atwood</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272&#038;cpage=1#comment-10516</link>
		<dc:creator>Kimball Atwood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 05:35:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272#comment-10516</guid>
		<description>@ Steve S:

You are in a difficult situation, but one that is becoming more common and that won&#039;t begin to abate until rational practitioners take a stand. For starters, I&#039;d recommend reading Val Jones&#039;s first post on SBM (if you haven&#039;t already): 

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=238&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;A “Shruggie” Awakening – One Doctor’s Journey Toward Scientific Enlightenment&lt;/a&gt; 

You might also try to get your other colleague to read that post; he sounds like a &quot;shruggie.&quot;

Next, go here:  http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?s=%22Science%2C+Reason%2C+Ethics%2C+and+Modern+Medicine%22+ 

All the while, insist that your new colleague be specific about what practices she advocates. If you are unfamiliar with them, look for explanatory articles at rigorous, skeptical sites such as SBM or Quackwatch, and try to get other faculty and residents to read them, too. 

Keep us informed. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Steve S:</p>
<p>You are in a difficult situation, but one that is becoming more common and that won&#8217;t begin to abate until rational practitioners take a stand. For starters, I&#8217;d recommend reading Val Jones&#8217;s first post on SBM (if you haven&#8217;t already): </p>
<p><a href="http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=238" rel="nofollow">A “Shruggie” Awakening – One Doctor’s Journey Toward Scientific Enlightenment</a> </p>
<p>You might also try to get your other colleague to read that post; he sounds like a &#8220;shruggie.&#8221;</p>
<p>Next, go here:  <a href="http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?s=%22Science%2C+Reason%2C+Ethics%2C+and+Modern+Medicine%22+" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?s=%22Science%2C+Reason%2C+Ethics%2C+and+Modern+Medicine%22+</a> </p>
<p>All the while, insist that your new colleague be specific about what practices she advocates. If you are unfamiliar with them, look for explanatory articles at rigorous, skeptical sites such as SBM or Quackwatch, and try to get other faculty and residents to read them, too. </p>
<p>Keep us informed. <img src='http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Perky Skeptic</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272&#038;cpage=1#comment-10515</link>
		<dc:creator>Perky Skeptic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Nov 2008 02:05:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272#comment-10515</guid>
		<description>This is a great post, but extremely depressing. The sale of snake oil appears to be alive and well, and the foxes are indeed running the henhouse. Keep on blogging for science and critical thought! Convert the shruggies!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a great post, but extremely depressing. The sale of snake oil appears to be alive and well, and the foxes are indeed running the henhouse. Keep on blogging for science and critical thought! Convert the shruggies!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve S</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272&#038;cpage=1#comment-10510</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 23:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272#comment-10510</guid>
		<description>I practice at family medicine residency.  We have difficulty in attracting faculty.  Over one year ago we hired a new faculty person, who is a graduate of our program, but she was just finishing a fellowship.  It was in Integrative medicine in Arizona.  I didn&#039;t know much about and I educated myself.  I am fond of our new faculty, but I am a skeptic at heart.  We have had discussions and she gets very defensive and says I have a closed mind.  I refered her to the new book &quot;Trick or Treatment&quot; and she refuses to read it.  She has now applied to the Weil foundation for a grant and they gave it to our program for $15,000 for seed to start a fellowship at my institution.  I have real problems with that.  My other colleague says it is alright if we can discuss the evidence.  I told him that they don&#039;t want to hear evidence that is not favorable to them.  What is a responsible physician who trains residents suppose to do?  I think that Weil and his kind are going to be buying their way into mainstream and bypassing the usual channels of evidence and merit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I practice at family medicine residency.  We have difficulty in attracting faculty.  Over one year ago we hired a new faculty person, who is a graduate of our program, but she was just finishing a fellowship.  It was in Integrative medicine in Arizona.  I didn&#8217;t know much about and I educated myself.  I am fond of our new faculty, but I am a skeptic at heart.  We have had discussions and she gets very defensive and says I have a closed mind.  I refered her to the new book &#8220;Trick or Treatment&#8221; and she refuses to read it.  She has now applied to the Weil foundation for a grant and they gave it to our program for $15,000 for seed to start a fellowship at my institution.  I have real problems with that.  My other colleague says it is alright if we can discuss the evidence.  I told him that they don&#8217;t want to hear evidence that is not favorable to them.  What is a responsible physician who trains residents suppose to do?  I think that Weil and his kind are going to be buying their way into mainstream and bypassing the usual channels of evidence and merit.</p>
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		<title>By: Fifi</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272&#038;cpage=1#comment-10498</link>
		<dc:creator>Fifi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:54:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272#comment-10498</guid>
		<description>So who do they treat these humans they get these &quot;natural products of the human endocrine glands&quot; from? I hope the humans they use for the source of their product aren&#039;t factory farmed and subjected to undue cruelty.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So who do they treat these humans they get these &#8220;natural products of the human endocrine glands&#8221; from? I hope the humans they use for the source of their product aren&#8217;t factory farmed and subjected to undue cruelty.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: overshoot</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272&#038;cpage=1#comment-10497</link>
		<dc:creator>overshoot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 18:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272#comment-10497</guid>
		<description>&quot;Natural&quot; therefore &quot;harmless.&quot;  No doubt he only intends &quot;natural nutrients.&quot;

OK by me.  I have here some polar bear liver.  I understand it&#039;s lovely broiled and has lots of beneficial nutrients.

Oh, wait.  He&#039;s also including &quot;natural products of the human endocrine glands.&quot;

Well just in case he&#039;s feeling a bit lacking in energy how about a jolt of epinephrine?  Say about 20 mg IV?  It&#039;s all natural, remember.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Natural&#8221; therefore &#8220;harmless.&#8221;  No doubt he only intends &#8220;natural nutrients.&#8221;</p>
<p>OK by me.  I have here some polar bear liver.  I understand it&#8217;s lovely broiled and has lots of beneficial nutrients.</p>
<p>Oh, wait.  He&#8217;s also including &#8220;natural products of the human endocrine glands.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well just in case he&#8217;s feeling a bit lacking in energy how about a jolt of epinephrine?  Say about 20 mg IV?  It&#8217;s all natural, remember.</p>
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		<title>By: Harriet Hall</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272&#038;cpage=1#comment-10493</link>
		<dc:creator>Harriet Hall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Nov 2008 17:15:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=272#comment-10493</guid>
		<description>Dommisse said all the substances that he prescribes are “natural” and therefore “harmless.” 

That belief alone should be sufficient to disqualify him from the practice of medicine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dommisse said all the substances that he prescribes are “natural” and therefore “harmless.” </p>
<p>That belief alone should be sufficient to disqualify him from the practice of medicine.</p>
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