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	<title>Comments on: The Early Course of Autism</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?feed=rss2&#038;p=3908" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908</link>
	<description>Exploring issues and controversies in the relationship between science and medicine</description>
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		<title>By: Science-Based Medicine &#187; Steven Higgs: Another antivaccine reporter like Dan Olmsted in the making?</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-48267</link>
		<dc:creator>Science-Based Medicine &#187; Steven Higgs: Another antivaccine reporter like Dan Olmsted in the making?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Apr 2010 10:51:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-48267</guid>
		<description>[...] a blog post on the Web site Science-Based Medicine, Novella wrote, &#8220;What these results indicate is that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a blog post on the Web site Science-Based Medicine, Novella wrote, &#8220;What these results indicate is that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: annejaa</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-43434</link>
		<dc:creator>annejaa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Feb 2010 05:39:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-43434</guid>
		<description>Well people with autism have issues with non-verbal communication,a wide range of social interactions and activities that include an element of play.If the symptoms are not severe,the person can be taught that eye contact is important for most people and he/she will remember to look people in the eye.You have done a good job and i will share this information with my friends too.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dealsbell.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;hp laptop coupon&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well people with autism have issues with non-verbal communication,a wide range of social interactions and activities that include an element of play.If the symptoms are not severe,the person can be taught that eye contact is important for most people and he/she will remember to look people in the eye.You have done a good job and i will share this information with my friends too.<br />
<a href="http://www.dealsbell.com" rel="nofollow">hp laptop coupon</a></p>
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		<title>By: DancingSamurai.ca &#124; The Early Course of Autism</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-43228</link>
		<dc:creator>DancingSamurai.ca &#124; The Early Course of Autism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 21 Feb 2010 16:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-43228</guid>
		<description>[...] via Science-Based Medicine » The Early Course of Autism. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] via Science-Based Medicine » The Early Course of Autism. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Science-Based Medicine &#187; Autism Onset and the Vaccine Schedule &#8211; Revisited</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-42969</link>
		<dc:creator>Science-Based Medicine &#187; Autism Onset and the Vaccine Schedule &#8211; Revisited</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:38:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-42969</guid>
		<description>[...] week on Science-Based Medicine I wrote an article about a new study looking at the onset of autism symptoms, showing that most children who will [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] week on Science-Based Medicine I wrote an article about a new study looking at the onset of autism symptoms, showing that most children who will [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BillyJoe</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-42968</link>
		<dc:creator>BillyJoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-42968</guid>
		<description>Steven Novella said:
&quot;Here I was thinking primarily of the MMR vaccine, the first to be blamed for autism (thanks to Andrew Wakefield). As you can see from the vaccine schedule, the first MMR vaccine in the series is scheduled for 12 months – after most children already have detectable signs of autism. &quot;

There is already a perfect riposte to this on the web:
http://www.autismobserved.net/

&quot;...we have believed that mercury is seriously implicated in the worldwide epidemic of autism. MMR has been no more than a bit player in this saga. No doubt to the satisfaction of the small coterie of companies who comprise the huge international vaccine cartel which has known all along that the real culprit DTP, given at two, three and four months of age does the real damage.

Unfortunately for parents and babies MMR, given at about twelve to fifteen months, can coincide with the visible onset of autism thus cloaking the true cause of harm. MMR could probably tip the balance in the case of a child seriously harmed by DTP but whom so far has escaped the worst of vaccine damage.&quot;

So, you see, it&#039;s DTP, not MMR, and your whole post actually supports the vaccine-autism link!
How ignorant are you then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steven Novella said:<br />
&#8220;Here I was thinking primarily of the MMR vaccine, the first to be blamed for autism (thanks to Andrew Wakefield). As you can see from the vaccine schedule, the first MMR vaccine in the series is scheduled for 12 months – after most children already have detectable signs of autism. &#8221;</p>
<p>There is already a perfect riposte to this on the web:<br />
<a href="http://www.autismobserved.net/" rel="nofollow">http://www.autismobserved.net/</a></p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;we have believed that mercury is seriously implicated in the worldwide epidemic of autism. MMR has been no more than a bit player in this saga. No doubt to the satisfaction of the small coterie of companies who comprise the huge international vaccine cartel which has known all along that the real culprit DTP, given at two, three and four months of age does the real damage.</p>
<p>Unfortunately for parents and babies MMR, given at about twelve to fifteen months, can coincide with the visible onset of autism thus cloaking the true cause of harm. MMR could probably tip the balance in the case of a child seriously harmed by DTP but whom so far has escaped the worst of vaccine damage.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, you see, it&#8217;s DTP, not MMR, and your whole post actually supports the vaccine-autism link!<br />
How ignorant are you then?</p>
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		<title>By: BillyJoe</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-42967</link>
		<dc:creator>BillyJoe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 12:02:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-42967</guid>
		<description>&quot;In fact, of the recommended vaccines, only two, MMR and varicella are recommended to start after the six month timeframe;&quot;

Actually, that is 4 vaccines (measles, mumps, rubella, and varicella) ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;In fact, of the recommended vaccines, only two, MMR and varicella are recommended to start after the six month timeframe;&#8221;</p>
<p>Actually, that is 4 vaccines (measles, mumps, rubella, and varicella) <img src='http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: cedge20</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-42947</link>
		<dc:creator>cedge20</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 00:57:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-42947</guid>
		<description>Oh, for goodness&#039; sake. The original study described makes perfect sense to me as the parent of a teenager with HFA/Asperger&#039;s. We were doting parents, but we did notice signs at 1 yr that he wasn&#039;t relating to us like other children might. He did not spontaneously smile us waving through the window and smiling; it was more like he studied us.

Elizabeth Moon, in Speed of Dark, has a great line: All babies are autistic; some grow out of it. I think this has some application to the study; you see this divergence of behavior at a certain point. It may correlate to other environmental factors, but they aren&#039;t the cause of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, for goodness&#8217; sake. The original study described makes perfect sense to me as the parent of a teenager with HFA/Asperger&#8217;s. We were doting parents, but we did notice signs at 1 yr that he wasn&#8217;t relating to us like other children might. He did not spontaneously smile us waving through the window and smiling; it was more like he studied us.</p>
<p>Elizabeth Moon, in Speed of Dark, has a great line: All babies are autistic; some grow out of it. I think this has some application to the study; you see this divergence of behavior at a certain point. It may correlate to other environmental factors, but they aren&#8217;t the cause of it.</p>
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		<title>By: superdave</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-42920</link>
		<dc:creator>superdave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 20:54:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-42920</guid>
		<description>I mean this with no sense or irony, sarcasm, cynicism.  Handley&#039;s rreply to this post saddens me.  That a professional adult reached the level he reached in that reply is truly demoralizing.  I don&#039;t think I even want to read AOA any more, it&#039;s like watching a turtle struggle to get off it&#039;s back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I mean this with no sense or irony, sarcasm, cynicism.  Handley&#8217;s rreply to this post saddens me.  That a professional adult reached the level he reached in that reply is truly demoralizing.  I don&#8217;t think I even want to read AOA any more, it&#8217;s like watching a turtle struggle to get off it&#8217;s back.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-42909</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 19:55:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-42909</guid>
		<description>So Handley shifts goalposts again.  This is a surprise?

Does  Wakefield&#039;s Lancet study, claiming regression within days of MMR is incorrect?

One of the key questions Handley claims as a benchmark for his &quot;fourteen studies&quot; website is:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Did the study actually contemplate the real world example of a parent vaccinating their child with 5 or more vaccines and then seeing a regression into autism afterward?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Handley&#039;s day is over.  It was before this, and it is even more true now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Handley shifts goalposts again.  This is a surprise?</p>
<p>Does  Wakefield&#8217;s Lancet study, claiming regression within days of MMR is incorrect?</p>
<p>One of the key questions Handley claims as a benchmark for his &#8220;fourteen studies&#8221; website is:</p>
<blockquote><p>Did the study actually contemplate the real world example of a parent vaccinating their child with 5 or more vaccines and then seeing a regression into autism afterward?</p></blockquote>
<p>Handley&#8217;s day is over.  It was before this, and it is even more true now.</p>
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		<title>By: passionlessDrone</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-42885</link>
		<dc:creator>passionlessDrone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-42885</guid>
		<description>Hi Edgar - 

You might be interested in knowing that children with autism have been shown time and time again to respond with a much more robust innate immune resonse when compared to their non autistic peers.  By way of example, you might consider &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&amp;_udi=B6WC1-4WYDMYV-1&amp;_user=10&amp;_coverDate=01%2F31%2F2010&amp;_rdoc=1&amp;_fmt=high&amp;_orig=search&amp;_sort=d&amp;_docanchor=&amp;view=c&amp;_searchStrId=1212404932&amp;_rerunOrigin=google&amp;_acct=C000050221&amp;_version=1&amp;_urlVersion=0&amp;_userid=10&amp;md5=3b03373325bdaac31348f9f93fd37c4f&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Enstrom&lt;/a&gt;, &lt;a href=&quot;http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?doi=10.1159/000084164&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jyonouchi&lt;/a&gt;,  or &lt;a href=&quot;http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0165572809000034&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Ashwood&lt;/a&gt;.  

The luxury we have always had in the fact that we&#039;ve only really studied the MMR or thimerosal regarding autism is that we really couldn&#039;t think of a mechanism by which other vaccines, given much earlier and in combination, might be affecting our infants in ways that might affect future neurodevelopment outside of immediately obvious, difficult to misinterpret, adverse reactions.  It seems, however, that the immune system is to some extent, maleable in during some times of development; for a less controversial example, check out the relationship between getting &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19416146?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&amp;ordinalpos=12&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;RSV as an infant and having a asthma or wheezing&lt;/a&gt; later in childhood.  

It turns out, we have many studies on the effect of immune challenges in animal models that show sublte but real effects on behavior, seizure succeptibility, and immune function.  These changes have been shown to have variety of contributory factors, including time dependence, ties to specific inflammatory cytokines, and TLR selectivity.  For a good review paper, you might check out &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19738918?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&amp;ordinalpos=2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Early-life programming of later-life brain and behavior: a critical role for the immune system&lt;/a&gt;

- pD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Edgar &#8211; </p>
<p>You might be interested in knowing that children with autism have been shown time and time again to respond with a much more robust innate immune resonse when compared to their non autistic peers.  By way of example, you might consider <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&amp;_udi=B6WC1-4WYDMYV-1&amp;_user=10&amp;_coverDate=01%2F31%2F2010&amp;_rdoc=1&amp;_fmt=high&amp;_orig=search&amp;_sort=d&amp;_docanchor=&amp;view=c&amp;_searchStrId=1212404932&amp;_rerunOrigin=google&amp;_acct=C000050221&amp;_version=1&amp;_urlVersion=0&amp;_userid=10&amp;md5=3b03373325bdaac31348f9f93fd37c4f" rel="nofollow">Enstrom</a>, <a href="http://content.karger.com/ProdukteDB/produkte.asp?doi=10.1159/000084164" rel="nofollow">Jyonouchi</a>,  or <a href="http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0165572809000034" rel="nofollow">Ashwood</a>.  </p>
<p>The luxury we have always had in the fact that we&#8217;ve only really studied the MMR or thimerosal regarding autism is that we really couldn&#8217;t think of a mechanism by which other vaccines, given much earlier and in combination, might be affecting our infants in ways that might affect future neurodevelopment outside of immediately obvious, difficult to misinterpret, adverse reactions.  It seems, however, that the immune system is to some extent, maleable in during some times of development; for a less controversial example, check out the relationship between getting <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19416146?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&amp;ordinalpos=12" rel="nofollow">RSV as an infant and having a asthma or wheezing</a> later in childhood.  </p>
<p>It turns out, we have many studies on the effect of immune challenges in animal models that show sublte but real effects on behavior, seizure succeptibility, and immune function.  These changes have been shown to have variety of contributory factors, including time dependence, ties to specific inflammatory cytokines, and TLR selectivity.  For a good review paper, you might check out <a href="http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19738918?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&amp;ordinalpos=2" rel="nofollow">Early-life programming of later-life brain and behavior: a critical role for the immune system</a></p>
<p>- pD</p>
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		<title>By: dt</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-42871</link>
		<dc:creator>dt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 18:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-42871</guid>
		<description>I see Handley admits that autism is not usually diagnosed after vaccine shots (yet still makes the erroneous causal claim):

&lt;blockquote&gt;It is exceptionally rare that I hear the story, “my son was 100% fine, and at 2 years old after one vaccine appointment he lost everything.” I have heard that story, but very rarely.
More commonly, I hear from parents about a chronic slide into autism with a progression of health issues accompanying the slide.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see Handley admits that autism is not usually diagnosed after vaccine shots (yet still makes the erroneous causal claim):</p>
<blockquote><p>It is exceptionally rare that I hear the story, “my son was 100% fine, and at 2 years old after one vaccine appointment he lost everything.” I have heard that story, but very rarely.<br />
More commonly, I hear from parents about a chronic slide into autism with a progression of health issues accompanying the slide.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-42861</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 17:36:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-42861</guid>
		<description>There is a lot of speculation going on about vaccines.  My quick read of the paper didn&#039;t have any mention of vaccine status of these children.

Most of the ASD kids were baby siblings of other ASD kids.  The families are working with MIND and UCLA.

It is not a stretch to assume that some fraction of these children were alternately or un-vaccinated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a lot of speculation going on about vaccines.  My quick read of the paper didn&#8217;t have any mention of vaccine status of these children.</p>
<p>Most of the ASD kids were baby siblings of other ASD kids.  The families are working with MIND and UCLA.</p>
<p>It is not a stretch to assume that some fraction of these children were alternately or un-vaccinated.</p>
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		<title>By: David Gorski</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-42833</link>
		<dc:creator>David Gorski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:47:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-42833</guid>
		<description>It figures. J.B. Handley has characteristically gone on the attack:

http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/02/dr-steven-novella-makes-the-case-for-vaccine-autism-link-by-mistake.html

Can anyone count the number of fallacious arguments in his post?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It figures. J.B. Handley has characteristically gone on the attack:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/02/dr-steven-novella-makes-the-case-for-vaccine-autism-link-by-mistake.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ageofautism.com/2010/02/dr-steven-novella-makes-the-case-for-vaccine-autism-link-by-mistake.html</a></p>
<p>Can anyone count the number of fallacious arguments in his post?</p>
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		<title>By: edgar</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-42829</link>
		<dc:creator>edgar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 15:14:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-42829</guid>
		<description>With my epi hat on,
This just occurred to me, so bear with me, but maybe there is some link between vaccines and autism?  Maybe an autistic child behavioral  reaction to mild vaccine ickiness is significantly different from non-autistic, or at least significantly different from their normal behavior, thus leading parents to think it is a &#039;cause&#039;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With my epi hat on,<br />
This just occurred to me, so bear with me, but maybe there is some link between vaccines and autism?  Maybe an autistic child behavioral  reaction to mild vaccine ickiness is significantly different from non-autistic, or at least significantly different from their normal behavior, thus leading parents to think it is a &#8217;cause&#8217;?</p>
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		<title>By: Steven Novella</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-42825</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Novella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:55:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-42825</guid>
		<description>PD - I wrote an addendum to clarify the point I was trying to make. It was an unfortunate choice of words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PD &#8211; I wrote an addendum to clarify the point I was trying to make. It was an unfortunate choice of words.</p>
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		<title>By: passionlessDrone</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-42821</link>
		<dc:creator>passionlessDrone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 14:08:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-42821</guid>
		<description>Hello friends - 

Interesting study, but the acrobatics necessary to contend that the &#039;majority of the vaccine schedule&#039; is between two to three years shows either someone didn&#039;t know the first thing about our vaccine schedule, or intentional wordsmithing for purposes unknown.

The bulk of our increase in the vaccination schedule has occurred in at the two, four, and six month appointments over the past two decades.  In fact, of the recommended vaccines, only two, MMR and varicella are recommended to start after the six month timeframe; the rest, Hep-B, HIB, DTaP, Rotavirus, Polio, Pneumococcal and Flu have all been given at least once, and up to three times by one year of age.   These are simple to validate facts.  

Why not just have a discussion of the study without the need to defend the (understudied) vaccine schedule?  

- pD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello friends &#8211; </p>
<p>Interesting study, but the acrobatics necessary to contend that the &#8216;majority of the vaccine schedule&#8217; is between two to three years shows either someone didn&#8217;t know the first thing about our vaccine schedule, or intentional wordsmithing for purposes unknown.</p>
<p>The bulk of our increase in the vaccination schedule has occurred in at the two, four, and six month appointments over the past two decades.  In fact, of the recommended vaccines, only two, MMR and varicella are recommended to start after the six month timeframe; the rest, Hep-B, HIB, DTaP, Rotavirus, Polio, Pneumococcal and Flu have all been given at least once, and up to three times by one year of age.   These are simple to validate facts.  </p>
<p>Why not just have a discussion of the study without the need to defend the (understudied) vaccine schedule?  </p>
<p>- pD</p>
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		<title>By: Scott</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-42816</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 13:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-42816</guid>
		<description>They measured the participants prospectively.  Then, at the predetermined stopping point, checked how many of them developed autism, selected an equal number of sex-matched low-risk-controls, and did the analysis.

So it&#039;s prospective, but with group categorization taking place at the end of the observation period instead of the beginning.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They measured the participants prospectively.  Then, at the predetermined stopping point, checked how many of them developed autism, selected an equal number of sex-matched low-risk-controls, and did the analysis.</p>
<p>So it&#8217;s prospective, but with group categorization taking place at the end of the observation period instead of the beginning.</p>
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		<title>By: Plonit</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-42784</link>
		<dc:creator>Plonit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-42784</guid>
		<description>Actually, on closer reading - is this truly a prospective study?  

I&#039;m really unclear on how they&#039;ve selected participants for analysis from the larger study into which this one was nested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, on closer reading &#8211; is this truly a prospective study?  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m really unclear on how they&#8217;ve selected participants for analysis from the larger study into which this one was nested.</p>
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		<title>By: Plonit</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-42783</link>
		<dc:creator>Plonit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-42783</guid>
		<description>I apologise, on closer reading, assessors were unaware of the group membership.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I apologise, on closer reading, assessors were unaware of the group membership.</p>
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		<title>By: Plonit</title>
		<link>http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908&#038;cpage=1#comment-42782</link>
		<dc:creator>Plonit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 07:06:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=3908#comment-42782</guid>
		<description>The article still isn&#039;t 100% right,  because some of the children later diagnosed with ASD were from the low-risk group (non-sibling group) - the logical corollary of some of the high-risk (sibling group) going on to be diagnosed with ASD.

There&#039;s something about this study that gives me pause, and I think I was alerted by your formulation that they  &quot;followed 25 children who were later diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder (ASD)&quot; alongside the description of the study as prospective.

So, immediately I think &quot;huh?  How does one know to follow the 25 children who will be diagnosed with ASD?&quot;  Of course, they didn&#039;t:  they followed 50 children in a prospective study, 25 of whom happened to later to be diagnosed with ASD.  But the weirdly back-to-front description (prospective study....of those later diagnosed) comes from the study authors and not Novella.

The rate of diagnosis (1:2) is very different from the real world, because researchers have drawn from a population where they expected very high rates of ASD diagnosis.  But I would like to see some real world data on the likelihood of a younger sibling of someone diagnosed with ASD also being diagnosed with ASD. In real world situations, is it as high as 22:25 (88%)?*  If so, that&#039;s reassuring (in terms of the study validity), but if it&#039;s lower than I wonder about the issue of blinding in a study like this.  The only mention of blinding is in relation to ASD diagnosis, and only in one validation procedure.  There is no mention of blinding researchers assessing children to the risk-group status of the participant children, so I wonder if that is an issue - especially since coding is subjectively perceived (the observer is the instrument).  It&#039;s just a thought.

*My back-of-the-envelope stuff also reminds me that confidence intervals are always nice to have.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article still isn&#8217;t 100% right,  because some of the children later diagnosed with ASD were from the low-risk group (non-sibling group) &#8211; the logical corollary of some of the high-risk (sibling group) going on to be diagnosed with ASD.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s something about this study that gives me pause, and I think I was alerted by your formulation that they  &#8220;followed 25 children who were later diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder (ASD)&#8221; alongside the description of the study as prospective.</p>
<p>So, immediately I think &#8220;huh?  How does one know to follow the 25 children who will be diagnosed with ASD?&#8221;  Of course, they didn&#8217;t:  they followed 50 children in a prospective study, 25 of whom happened to later to be diagnosed with ASD.  But the weirdly back-to-front description (prospective study&#8230;.of those later diagnosed) comes from the study authors and not Novella.</p>
<p>The rate of diagnosis (1:2) is very different from the real world, because researchers have drawn from a population where they expected very high rates of ASD diagnosis.  But I would like to see some real world data on the likelihood of a younger sibling of someone diagnosed with ASD also being diagnosed with ASD. In real world situations, is it as high as 22:25 (88%)?*  If so, that&#8217;s reassuring (in terms of the study validity), but if it&#8217;s lower than I wonder about the issue of blinding in a study like this.  The only mention of blinding is in relation to ASD diagnosis, and only in one validation procedure.  There is no mention of blinding researchers assessing children to the risk-group status of the participant children, so I wonder if that is an issue &#8211; especially since coding is subjectively perceived (the observer is the instrument).  It&#8217;s just a thought.</p>
<p>*My back-of-the-envelope stuff also reminds me that confidence intervals are always nice to have.</p>
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