Comments on: Hype over science: Does acupuncture really improve the chances of success for in vitro fertilization? http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=43 Exploring issues and controversies in the relationship between science and medicine Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:44:30 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Science-Based Medicine » On the dangers of using valid placebo controls in clinical trials of acupuncture http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-10576 Science-Based Medicine » On the dangers of using valid placebo controls in clinical trials of acupuncture Mon, 17 Nov 2008 08:03:53 +0000 http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=43#comment-10576 [...] chance of success for couples undergoing in vitro fertilization (IVF). Indeed, early this year I wrote about a meta-analysis that concluded that acupuncture did actually increase the success rate of IVF and why it did not [...] [...] chance of success for couples undergoing in vitro fertilization (IVF). Indeed, early this year I wrote about a meta-analysis that concluded that acupuncture did actually increase the success rate of IVF and why it did not [...]

]]> By: The Rogues Gallery » Blog Archive » Acupuncture - The Cat Came Back http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-1706 The Rogues Gallery » Blog Archive » Acupuncture - The Cat Came Back Sat, 01 Mar 2008 13:00:45 +0000 http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=43#comment-1706 [...] the chance of concieving through IVF. The rogues discussed this in Episode 134 of the SGU and Dr. David Gorski wrote about it on Science-Based Medicine. There was the study that concluded that acupuncture can help with [...] [...] the chance of concieving through IVF. The rogues discussed this in Episode 134 of the SGU and Dr. David Gorski wrote about it on Science-Based Medicine. There was the study that concluded that acupuncture can help with [...]

]]> By: Me and Sue Young Homeopathy on the same list? I need a beer to drown my sorrows… [Respectful Insolence] | NewAge.org http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-1697 Me and Sue Young Homeopathy on the same list? I need a beer to drown my sorrows… [Respectful Insolence] | NewAge.org Fri, 29 Feb 2008 23:05:20 +0000 http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=43#comment-1697 [...] believers, doctors such as Dr. Brad (who, based on his credulity, really, really needs a dose of skepticism), Dr. Melissa Clouthier (who thinks Feng Shui “makes a lot of sense“), two naturopaths, [...] [...] believers, doctors such as Dr. Brad (who, based on his credulity, really, really needs a dose of skepticism), Dr. Melissa Clouthier (who thinks Feng Shui “makes a lot of sense“), two naturopaths, [...]

]]> By: Acupuncture And Hello To Adam « PodBlack Blog http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-1516 Acupuncture And Hello To Adam « PodBlack Blog Sat, 23 Feb 2008 14:43:41 +0000 http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=43#comment-1516 [...] The bugger about it all, as I said last time I saw you? It’s a sod trying to control for the placebo effect if you try double-blind testing (White, et. al, 2003). I personally couldn’t figure out how to pretend to twiddle a needle into someone and trick them into thinking and feeling that it’s happening - but apparently the British Medical Journal has reported this month how someone has created ‘dummy effects’ and it having an effect on IVF chances. You might note that there’s some responses to the study as well - but even more condemning is the site www.sciencebasedmedicine.com where David Gorski points out that as a meta-analysis, “this study does not provide particularly compelling evidence to support such a conclusion&#82... [...] [...] The bugger about it all, as I said last time I saw you? It’s a sod trying to control for the placebo effect if you try double-blind testing (White, et. al, 2003). I personally couldn’t figure out how to pretend to twiddle a needle into someone and trick them into thinking and feeling that it’s happening – but apparently the British Medical Journal has reported this month how someone has created ‘dummy effects’ and it having an effect on IVF chances. You might note that there’s some responses to the study as well – but even more condemning is the site http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.com where David Gorski points out that as a meta-analysis, “this study does not provide particularly compelling evidence to support such a conclusion&#82… [...]

]]> By: Relaxation » Blog Archive » Hype over science: Does acupuncture really improve the chances of ... http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-1514 Relaxation » Blog Archive » Hype over science: Does acupuncture really improve the chances of ... Sat, 23 Feb 2008 13:07:36 +0000 http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=43#comment-1514 [...] David Gorski created an interesting post today on Hype over science: Does acupuncture really improve the chances of …Here’s a short outlineIf it’s the case that either relaxation promotes implantation or nervousness inhibits it, then anything that results in relaxation during embryo placement would result in higher fertility rates. No needles would be needed. … [...] [...] David Gorski created an interesting post today on Hype over science: Does acupuncture really improve the chances of …Here’s a short outlineIf it’s the case that either relaxation promotes implantation or nervousness inhibits it, then anything that results in relaxation during embryo placement would result in higher fertility rates. No needles would be needed. … [...]

]]> By: wertys http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-1147 wertys Tue, 12 Feb 2008 02:59:38 +0000 http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=43#comment-1147 Gotta say, there are a couple of things which look fishy to me about this study. the first is that it was paid for by the NCCAM, so the reviewers cannot credibly be said to be unbiased. The second was the effect referred to above, in that the baseline rate of pregnancy in the particular study clearly affected the effect size of the 'treatment'. This is the sort of finding one sees when there is actually no treatment effect. A robust effect is visible in the data from several angles, not just from the left with the light behind it if you really squint your eyes.....and particularly if the effect size was in the order of 65%. It shouldn't totally evaporate if you alter the study population a little. Gotta say, there are a couple of things which look fishy to me about this study. the first is that it was paid for by the NCCAM, so the reviewers cannot credibly be said to be unbiased. The second was the effect referred to above, in that the baseline rate of pregnancy in the particular study clearly affected the effect size of the ‘treatment’. This is the sort of finding one sees when there is actually no treatment effect. A robust effect is visible in the data from several angles, not just from the left with the light behind it if you really squint your eyes…..and particularly if the effect size was in the order of 65%. It shouldn’t totally evaporate if you alter the study population a little.

]]> By: David Gorski http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-1126 David Gorski Mon, 11 Feb 2008 18:46:14 +0000 http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=43#comment-1126 Note to commenters; I have been traveling and have no Internet access right now. (I'm in a Panera's right now checking e-mail and the blog.) I thought I would have Internet access this morning, but that didn't happen. In any case, I won't have Internet access again before tomorrow afternoon sometime. Not having Internet access really, really sucks, especially for a blogger. Note to commenters; I have been traveling and have no Internet access right now. (I’m in a Panera’s right now checking e-mail and the blog.) I thought I would have Internet access this morning, but that didn’t happen. In any case, I won’t have Internet access again before tomorrow afternoon sometime.

Not having Internet access really, really sucks, especially for a blogger.

]]> By: daedalus2u http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=43&cpage=1#comment-1116 daedalus2u Mon, 11 Feb 2008 14:10:30 +0000 http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=43#comment-1116 The placebo effect would be extremely likely to increase fertility. There are a number of known mechanism by which the placebo effect (mediated through increased nitric oxide) would increase fertility. First, one of the things that maintains an oocyte in a fertilizable condition is the ambient NO level. When that level is low, the "window" for fertilization to occur is shortened. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16981697?ordinalpos=5&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum In discussing this effect with one of the authors, the idea that low NO would reduce the likelihood of pregnancy seemed to us to be a "feature" that would reduce the likelihood of pregnancy during a time of high stress, a time when being pregnant would not be a good idea. The placebo effect would be extremely likely to increase fertility. There are a number of known mechanism by which the placebo effect (mediated through increased nitric oxide) would increase fertility.

First, one of the things that maintains an oocyte in a fertilizable condition is the ambient NO level. When that level is low, the “window” for fertilization to occur is shortened.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16981697?ordinalpos=5&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

In discussing this effect with one of the authors, the idea that low NO would reduce the likelihood of pregnancy seemed to us to be a “feature” that would reduce the likelihood of pregnancy during a time of high stress, a time when being pregnant would not be a good idea.

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