A surprising article about “integrative” medicine in The New England Journal of Medicine vs. “patient-centered” care
The New England Journal of Medicine (NEJM) is published on Thursdays. I mention this because this is one of the rare times where my owning Mondays on this blog tends to be a rather large advantage. Fridays are rotated between two or three different bloggers, and, as awesome as they are as writers, bloggers, and friends, they don’t possess the rabbit-like speed (and attention span) that I do that would allow me to see an article published in the NEJM on Thursday and get a post written about it by early Friday morning. This is, of course, a skill I have honed in my not-so-super-secret other blogging identity; so if I owned the Friday slot I could pull it off. However, the Monday slot is good enough because I’ll almost always have first crack at juicy studies and articles published in the NEJM before my fellow SBM partners in crime, unless Steve Novella managed to crank something out for his own personal blog on Friday, curse him.
My desire to be the firstest with the mostest when it comes to blogging about new articles notwithstanding, as I perused the table of contents of the NEJM this week, I was shocked to see an article that made me wonder whether the editors at NEJM might just be starting to “get it”—just a little bit—regarding “integrative” medicine. As our very own Mark Crislip put it a little more than a week ago:
If you integrate fantasy with reality, you do not instantiate reality. If you mix cow pie with apple pie, it does not make the cow pie taste better; it makes the apple pie worse.
Lately, though, I’ve been more fond of a version that doesn’t use fancy words like “instantiate”:
If you integrate fantasy with reality, you don’t make the fantasy more real. You temporarily make your reality seem more fantasy-based, but reality always wins out in the end.
The part about the cow pie needs no change, although I think ice cream works a bit better than apple pie. Your mileage may vary. Feel free to make up your own metaphor inspired by Mark’s.
In any case, in the Perspective section, I saw three articles about “patient-centered” care:
- Goal-Oriented Patient Care — An Alternative Health Outcomes by David B. Reuben, M.D., and Mary E. Tinetti, M.D.
- Shared Decision Making — The Pinnacle of Patient-Centered Care by Michael J. Barry, M.D., and Susan Edgman-Levitan, P.A.
- Defining “Patient-Centered Medicine” by Charles L. Bardes, M.D.
As I and several of my fellow SBM bloggers have pointed out, the whole concept of “patient-centered” care, as worthy as it is in theory, is all too often in practice co-opted by promoters of unscientific, pseusocientific, and faith-based health care modalities to justify quackery. That’s why the fourth article on the list surprised me:
What’s the Alternative? The Worldwide Web of Integrative Medicine by Ranjana Srivastava, F.R.A.C.P.
When I saw this title, I was rather expecting apologetics about “integrative” medicine. What I got instead was an article that would have been appropriate right here on this very blog, a post about a woman who had fallen prey to a dubious test promoted at an “integrative” health fair and the devastating results of that test. That’s why I was suprised.
After all, let’s look at the record of the NEJM over the last couple of years. What is still considered to be one of the best medical journals in the world, if not the best, appears to be the victim of a conscious effort on the behalf of its editors to dethrone itself as king of medical journals through its increasing acceptance of the spin placed on medical science by those who would integrate fantasy with reality in medicine in the hope of improving medicine. Unfortunately for them reality has a way of always winning out in the end, just as the cow pie wins out in Mark’s metaphor.
For me, the first sign of major trouble appeared back in the summer of 2010, when the NEJM published what was on the surface an unremarkable study that found that tai chi appeared to have a beneficial effect on symptoms in patients with fibromyalgia. Indeed, I remember it well because its publication coincided with my trip to Chicago to give an invited talk to the Chicago Skeptics, the Women Thinking Free Foundation, and CFI-Chicago. (Hey, come to think of it, it’s been a long time since then. Maybe the skeptical crew would want to invite me out again to give a talk. But I digress…) In any case, part of what was so annoying about the article is that, as I put it, the NEJM completely and uncritically let the authors spin their results in—shall we say?—an “alternative” frame. As I pointed out at the time, let’s say that tai chi is the greatest thing since sliced bread and that it alleviates fibromyalgia pain and stiffness better than anything we’ve yet come up with. Let’s assume all of those things are true, just for the moment: what thought comes to mind to you? I know what thought comes to mind to me. What on earth is “alternative” or “complementary” about such a finding? In reality, such findings would simply indicate that certain forms of low-impact exercise could help fibromyalgia symptoms, which is not anything particularly surprising at all, given what we already know about fibromyalgia. In the interim, this NEJM article has been touted far and wide by apologists for “complementary and alternative medicine” (CAM), or, as they prefer to call it these days, “integrative medicine.”
Around about the same time, the NEJM published an even more credulous article about acupuncture in its Clinical Therapeutics section. As I described at the time, it was a clinical vignette, a little case presentation if you will, by Dr. Brian M. Berman, who has managed in a brief period of time to become the foremost popularizer of acupuncture in academic medical centers. In this vignette, the acupuncture was presented as a perfectly fine alternative for low back pain, and, as both Mark Crislip and I described, Berman did some pretty creative spinning to make it seem as though evidence favored acupuncture.
Since then, there have been other examples of the once-venerable NEJM falling for what can best be described as utter nonsense. In fact, even when publishing what could be a scientifically interesting and medically useful paper on placebo effects, its editors allowed the authors, led by Ted Kaptchuk, to spin the results in a way to imply that patients can have symptomatic relief without actual reversal of the underlying physiologic derangement that caused their symptoms in the first place and that that’s OK. In this case, the disease was asthma, and the paper published showed that placebo acupuncture resulted in asthma patients feeling better but didn’t reverse the airway constriction that led patients to feel short of breath in the first place. Peter Lipson quite properly described this as “folly,” but it’s worse than that. The NEJM doubled down and published an accompanying editorial by Daniel Moerman, who is about as postmodernist as it gets and all about “meaning” in the doctor-patient interaction. I’m going to quote the same passage from his editorial now that I quoted then, in which Moerman makes an explicit plea for placebo medicine based on the concept of patient-centered care:
The authors conclude that the patient reports were “unreliable,” since they reported improvement when there was none — that is, the subjective experiences were simply wrong because they ignored the objective facts as measured by FEV1. But is this the right interpretation? It is the subjective symptoms that brought these patients to medical care in the first place. They came because they were wheezing and felt suffocated, not because they had a reduced FEV1. The fact that they felt improved even when their FEV1 had not increased begs the question, What is the more important outcome in medicine: the objective or the subjective, the doctor’s or the patient’s perception? This distinction is important, since it should direct us as to when patient-centered versus doctor-directed care should take place.
For subjective and functional conditions — for example, migraine, schizophrenia, back pain, depression, asthma, post-traumatic stress disorder, neurologic disorders such as Parkinson’s disease, inflammatory bowel disease and many other autoimmune disorders, any condition defined by symptoms, and anything idiopathic — a patient-centered approach requires that patient-preferred outcomes trump the judgment of the physician. Under these conditions, inert pills can be as useful as “real” ones; two inert pills can work better than one; colorful inert pills can work better than plain ones; and injections can work better than pills.
Which brings us to today, skipping over the recent incident where the NEJM apparently has decided that accepting dubious advertisements is acceptable. The article about the cancer quack begins with a patient who out of curiosity wanders into an “integrative” health exhibition, and this is what happens:
Out of curiosity, an impressionable woman in her 30s attends an integrative medicine exhibition; having recently had a child, she’s been sleep-deprived and wants to investigate natural remedies. At the seminar, she wins a door prize — a blood test that promises to diagnose cancer. She was considering getting a blood test anyway and seizes this opportunity for a more comprehensive workup. After all, you can’t be too careful about avoiding cancer.
Weeks later, she receives a call from an apologetic but alarmed stranger telling her she has advanced cancer.
“How do you know?” she gasps.
“Your blood test is positive for circulating tumor cells.”
“What does that mean?” she cries.
He sends her a three-page report and tells her to seek immediate help. She spends a nail-biting week awaiting an appointment with the recommended integrative health expert.
Glancing at the report, the expert declares, “You have advanced non-small-cell lung cancer. You need treatment now.” The woman is petrified: Has her teenage smoking habit come back to haunt her?
“Are you sure?” she asks.
“Absolutely. There are circulating tumor cells in your blood.”
Tears streaming down her face, the woman asks, “What now?”
Ten years ago, it was whole body scans, which, while not really advertised as “integrative” or “alternative” produced the same sorts of results: Terrified people who thought they had a horrible disease based on an “incidentaloma.” The end results were frequently multiple additional imaging tests, with the concomitant unnecessary doses of radiation, invasive procedures, and even surgeries to try to determine whether these incidentalomas were actually cancer or anything else to worry about. Because the prevalence of abnormalities on such scans is so high, the fraction of these “false alarms” was (and remains) very high. The result is that such highly sensitive tests indiscriminately applied to a population in which the likelihood of the disease being sought is low are far more likely to cause harm through false alarms that result in further tests than they are to save lives through early detection. Sure, there will be the occasional “save,” in which a potentially deadly tumor is discovered at a very small size and resected. Certainly that is what the whole body scanning businesses that sprouted up a decade ago and have now (thankfully) mostly gone away would tout in their advertisements. What they wouldn’t tell you is the cost, how many were harmed or how many were sent off on wild goose chases compared to the rare person who might have been saved by such a pickup.
After hearing the recommendation of the “integrative practitioner” that she undergo a 12-week course of intravenous vitamin C, at a cost of $6,000, the patient decided to seek out an oncologist. As I’ve pointed out time and time again, vitamin C has pretty much failed as a potential treatment for cancer, its advocacy by a Nobel Laureate notwithstanding. Basically, it requires incredibly high doses of vitamin C. There might be a very modest antitumor effect at incredibly high doses, but it’s such a long run for a short slide that it doesn’t really make sense to use, particularly given that there is evidence that vitamin C at high concentrations can interfere with convention chemotherapy treatments.
But let’s get back to the “diagnosis.” A decade ago, it was full body scans. Apparently today it’s “circulating tumor cells.” (And, of course, thermography is forever.) Remember how extensively I’ve written about how earlier detection is not always better? Overdiagnosis, detection bias that favors less aggressive cancers among screening-detected cancers, stage migration (the “Will Rogers effect”), and a number of other confounders make it difficult to determine just when and how often to use good screening tests for which we have data from very large population-based studies and clinical trials, like mammography. There remains controversy to this day regarding when and how to screen for breast cancer and even whether to screen for prostate cancer. In the meantime, trying to screen for lung cancer using CT scans has largely been a failure.
So here we have a quack—yes, a quack—looking for circulating tumor cells (CTC) in the blood of a young woman in whom there is no strong reason to suspect cancer other than a distant smoking history. Who knows if the test is valid? That is, of course, the first thing I would question, given where the company was promoting its wares and what the “integrative” practitioner recommended. But let’s for the moment assume that there were circulating tumor cells in a woman with no known tumor? Do we know what to do with such things? No! We have no idea. Measuring circulating tumor cells in the blood is a hot area of research right now, which is no doubt why “integrative” practitioners are apparently offering such tests, to capitalize on the interest. In any case, the research that is going on is primarily focused on using CTCs as prognostic markers in patients diagnosed with cancer and for following response to therapy, and, even in those situations, they have not been validated to the point where they have become standard of care. Measuring CTCs is still, at best, experimental, and there is as yet no good evidence that they will be useful as screening tools in populations not at high risk. Scientists still argue over the proper cutoff points for patients with cancer; they have no idea what to use as a cutoff measurement in healthy patients. As Max Wicha put it, not all detected cells are bad and not all bad cells are detected.
The rest of the story goes something like this. A skeptical friend of the woman suggested that she should have a scan, and she had a cousin of hers, who happened to be a physician, order a chest X-ray and CT scan (which is another excellent example of why physicians should not treat family members), which revealed “two tiny nodules, 2 mm each in diameter.” On the radiology report were those waffle words that clinicians dread reading, “Clinical correlation is recommended in the context of a smoking history” (which is another reason physicians should not order tests whose results they won’t know what to do with). After trying to get in to see a thoracic surgeon, the patient is referred to an oncologist’s office, that of Dr. Srivastava, the author of the paper. This is what happens next, as described by Dr. Srivastava. I’ll quote as liberally from the article as I think I can and still be in the bounds of fair use, because, oddly enough, even though the three articles on patient-centered care are free for the download on the NEJM site, this article on cancer quackery is not. I wonder why. In any case, on with the story:
“There’s no evidence of cancer,” I reply, seeking to reassure her.
Instead, her tone sharpens: “But I have circulating tumor cells! How can you say that?”
Incredulous, I try to explain too many things. The blood test is a long way from being validated for clinical use. It was unscrupulous even to offer it. Does it make sense to her that it was sent to an unheard-of overseas laboratory for processing? Why did no one recommend that she see an oncologist?
Rolling her eyes, she counters, “I’ve heard that I need a PET scan. And if the spots light up, this test will have been my lifesaver.”
She is right on one count: the surgeon she sees orders a PET scan, saying he needs to be sure. She loses sleep over the results — the surgeon’s appointment is 2 weeks away, and she wants to schedule the operation. Feeling sympathetic, I tell her the PET scan was clear and the two small nodules seen on the first CT have disappeared; the radiologist thinks they were probably transient foci of inflammation.
But any relief the woman feels is ephemeral. “So what does that mean?” she asks. “The PET scan is faulty?”
“There is no cancer,” I reiterate.
“But someone has seen cancer cells,” she insists.
“That was not a validated test — not something we currently use to diagnose cancer,” I protest.
Dr. Srivastava goes around and around with the patient, trying to reassure her that she does not have cancer. She largely fails. The patient insists on being followed by her because she thinks she has a tiny cancer somewhere that’s just waiting to blossom, leading Dr. Srivastava to lament, quite appropriately, “How does one ‘disprove’ a serious diagnosis once its specter has been raised by an unqualified ‘expert’?” How indeed? I’ve had the same sort of problem with women who come in with thermograms convinced that they have breast cancer and wanting a double mastectomy. Fortunately, this is not common, at least not in my practice. Very fortunately.
Dr. Srivastava then hits the nail on the head:
At one time, the worst offense one encountered was someone prescribing a few herbs to a desperate patient who’d exhausted all other means of treatment. The usual thinking was, “At this stage, it can’t do any harm.” But insidiously and alarmingly, “alternative medicine” has crept from offering last-ditch treatments to making diagnoses. As the cancer armamentarium has expanded with targeted therapies, unscrupulous practitioners of alternative therapy have devised competing offers that sound at least as impressive to the average patient, who is often marginally health-literate and eager to embrace the promise of a cure without toxicity. But the radical, completely unregulated, and often dangerous options on offer can and do cause harm.
After describing the sorts of quack treatments she’s seen her patients use, Dr. Srivastava then drives to the heart of the matter when she points out:
The practitioners never write directly to oncologists and refuse to be accountable for their actions. Unauthorized to order tests, they tell patients, “Ask your doctor to do these bloods,” or “You need to have a scan to see whether the microwaves are working.”
Alternative therapies need meet no burden of proof except a patient’s gullibility. One never hears of alternative therapies that failed: the patient merely waited too long to try them. For every patient who openly discusses such treatments, there must be many who assume the treatments aren’t worth mentioning to “traditional” oncologists. After all, to make integrative health the multibillion-dollar industry it is, people must be supporting it; those people are our patients.
Physicians would be naive to ignore the elephant in the room. Integrative medicine comes in many forms — some useful, but many dangerous. It also comes at tremendous personal and societal cost. The initial expenditure may come from patients’ pockets, but often the health care system eventually inherits the problem. Although there’s probably no way of calculating the psychological cost, for many it is high and unending.
Indeed. Maybe I’ll send Dr. Srivastava an invitation to write a post or two for SBM. She sounds like my kind of doc.
All of this brings us back to “patient-centered” care and how it relates to the article about the cancer quack. Indeed, I wonder whether the NEJM editors are actually starting to “get it” by tacking Dr. Srivastava’s article on to the end of the NEJM Perspectives section. Think back to Dr. Moerman’s definition of “patient-centered care.” Now look at what we are told in the first article, by Ruben and Tinetti:
Perhaps the most important barrier to goal-oriented care is that medicine is deeply rooted in a disease-outcome–based paradigm. Rather than asking what patients want, the culture has valued managing each disease as well as possible according to guidelines and population goals.
Ultimately, good medicine is about doing right for the patient. For patients with multiple chronic diseases, severe disability, or limited life expectancy, any accounting of how well we’re succeeding in providing care must above all consider patients’ preferred outcomes.
Dr. Bardes writes in the third article:
“Patient-centered medicine” is the newest salvo in these ancient debates. As a form of practice, it seeks to focus medical attention on the individual patient’s needs and concerns, rather than the doctor’s. As a rhetorical slogan, it stakes a position in contrast to which everything else is both doctor-centered and suspect on ethical, economic, organizational, and metaphoric grounds.
But what does that mean? Ruben and Tinetti discuss prioritizing patients’ desired outcomes and helping them to achieve these outcomes, as long as they are possible. Dr. Bardes likens the relationship between doctor and patient as one of equals, like two binary stars orbiting a common center of gravity, a double helix, whose strands circle each other, or even the caduceus, with two serpents intertwined. I have to hand it to Dr. Bardes, he’s a poetic guy, but he goes too far. While patient and physician might be equals as human beings, in terms of medical knowledge they are not. If they were, then the patient arguably would not need the physician and would be able to handle his health problems himself. A better way of looking at it would be that the physician is the expert consultant, whose skill and knowledge the patient requests, while the patient is free to accept or refuse the physician’s advice. This is not the same as the old paternalistic model, where the doctor ordered and the patient acquiesced, because the patient is actively involved in seeking advice and can reject that advice. In other words, the relationship is more equal, but not exactly equal.
Now let’s think of what extreme patient-centered care would mean in the case of the woman described by Dr. Srivastava. This woman wanted more tests either to prove she didn’t have cancer or to remove the tiny 2 mm masses that were suspected to be cancer. That was her greatest concern, and medicine could address that quite easily by doing what the patient wanted; i.e., either operating on her or otherwise treating her. As it is, Dr. Srivastava could very easily have simply taken the patient on as a regular and seen her periodically, ordering tests every so often to assuage her fears. That would have been less potentially harmful than doing additional tests or even surgery. A physician could (and some do) build up lucrative practices of just such “worried well.” Would that be patient-centered care? It would certainly be giving the patient what she wants and placing the patient’s desires over that of the physician’s.
Certainly many “integrative” practitioners have wholeheartedly embraced the concept of patient-centered care. However, they have done so more out of a desire to be able to justify placebo medicine. If it makes the patient feel better, it must be better, you know, just like the sham acupuncture that made the asthma patients feel better without reversing their underlying airway constriction. Those patients felt great and probably would continue to feel great until they turned blue. “Patient-centered care” is easy when it devolves into giving the patient what she wants without consideration of science. Real patient-centered care is hard and must contend with situations where what the patient wants is unrealistic or impossible.
Certainly a better model is the one described by Barry and Edgman-Levitan, which calls for shared decision-making:
For some decisions, there is one clearly superior path, and patient preferences play little or no role — a fractured hip needs repair, acute appendicitis necessitates surgery, and bacterial meningitis requires antibiotics. For most medical decisions, however, more than one reasonable path forward exists (including the option of doing nothing, when appropriate), and different paths entail different combinations of possible therapeutic effects and side effects. Decisions about therapy for early-stage breast cancer or prostate cancer, lipid-lowering medication for the primary prevention of coronary heart disease, and genetic and cancer screening tests are good examples. In such cases, patient involvement in decision making adds substantial value.
This is probably true, but it depends upon the patient being provided with scientifically valid information to help guide their part of the shared decision-making process. I’ve frequently referred to a concept that I like to call “misinformed consent.” Basically, that’s how practitioners of unscientific nonsense will exaggerate the benefits and minimize the risks of their recommendations, all the while exaggerating the harms and minimizing the benefits of conventional therapies. A particularly apt example is the antivaccine movement, which tries to convince people that vaccines don’t work and are very dangerous. CAM practitioners do the same thing in their vision of “patient-centered care,” but informed consent is not optional, and without informed consent patient-centered care cannot work.
I wonder whether the editors realized that they just might be making a statement when they juxtaposed Dr. Srivastava’s article about what happens when “integrative” care runs rampant with three articles describing the very “patient-centered” care that such practitioners take advantage of. It’s not possible to have real patient-centered care without real informed consent, and “integrative medicine” relies on misinformed consent.
Posted in: Cancer, Medical Academia, Medical Ethics
Leave a Comment (121) ↓
Personally, the only thing I want to ban is practitioners making false claims in order to sell their products/services.
If that ends up being an effective ban on the products/services, as said practitioners tend to argue, well, that says quite a lot about their quality.
I know that few of you expect to be able to totally suppress CAM but can you see how this common perception arises, DW, David and others?
It is not merely a logical extrapolation from prevalent SBM viewpoints that CAM is worthless, dangerous and pushing good science aside. Similar views have been explicitly stated as a desired end in some the comments, with nothing but rah! rah! in response.
Of course, being desirous of something approaching “ruthless suppression” is a reasonably appropriate response to some of the more horrible elements of CAM. But muddled in with our natural emotional responses to matters like that, which may be better confronted directly anyway, is our over-arching concern for “good science” (as we interpret it) and our visions of that being overturned by prescientific superstitions.
So it happens that we appear to be involved an undifferentiated, indeed “ruthless” crusade against anything that is not mainstream endorsed. Yet we are constantly exposed as not being so pure ourselves. I can sense how aggravating this will be to some, if you cannot.
Karl It seems to me, and I may be off here, that pmoran is essentially advocating a compatiblist concept of non–overlapping magistria between (CAM based) placebo medicine and objectively effective/ Science Based Medicine. He puts forth the concept that each has its proper place and the two can successfully coexist and be integrated together without compromising the quality and integrity of the practice of medicine.
Ethical considerations aside, he seems to believe that the use and promotion of certain modalities with firmly rooted bases of implausible underlying mythology and pseudoscience can be adequately confined to specific applications &/or practiced in such a was as to not result in the erosion of the science based practice of medicine for either the practitioner or the recipient.
Well, not quite.
I am still feeling my way, Karl, but I am presently inclined to allow for the validity of a beneficial (in limited ways), all-pervasive “generic medicine” based upon placebo influences and supportive human interactions. These can apply within any medical environment, no matter how stupid it might seem scientifically.
Overlaid onto that scenario is the relative latecomer of “biomedicine”. That name seems meaningless to me and I sometimes wonder where it sprang from, but it is used to refer to methods that have intrinsic, special — if you like, “additional” therapeutic activity. They add a different quality of therapeutic activity to that vague cloud of it that surrounds any medical interaction. They are now indispensable and often life-saving, but they don’t provide sufficiently safe and effective answers for everything.
Looked at this way, CAM is an inevitable phenomenon, merely the continuance of what went before, serving adequately as medicine for some, helping others with problems that the mainstream lacks wholly satisfactory answers for or patients that it cannot quite “click” with, while posing real dangers for others.
Those who find the existence of CAM depressing and a frustrating nut to crack, might find some comfort in this way of looking at it.
.
@pmoran,
“serving adequately as medicine for some, helping others”
Serving inadequately as medicine for some, making others think they have been helped, comforting them with misrepresentations of the truth.
No, I don’t think eventual health outcomes are improved by reverting to pre-scientific medicine. I think you are advocating for “feel-good” things that are ultimately not in the patient’s best interests.
pmoran:
>we appear to be involved an undifferentiated, indeed “ruthless” crusade against anything that is not mainstream endorsed.
Well, I think you’re saying that SBM-ers have an image problem. They look mean and nasty, while purveyors of CAM look warm and fuzzy. That *is* a problem.
One piece SBM advocates might really work on is the mistaken perception that they/we are against “anything non-mainstream.” This perception needs to change to, We/they are in favor of TESTING such things in a scientific fashion. Of course, it isn’t quite that simple, ‘cus not everything is worth testing, and some things would go on simply being rejected as ridiculous. But somehow the perception needs to change from negative to positive. SBM advocates have a bad rep because they’re perceived as negative, taking something away that brings some people comfort; they need to be perceived as IN FAVOR of something, rather than against something.
They also need to fight the image that they are supercilious and superior, making fun of the little guy who just wants to take something to feel better and doesn’t give two hoots how it works, or even, unfortunately, WHETHER it works, as long as it somehow brings quick if temporary relief.
IMX it’s primarily because practitioners of CAM insist that they HAVE to be able to make false statements to their marks – err, patients – in order to stay in business. Their rhetoric directly equates “don’t let people lie” with “ban CAM” (albeit not in so many words). Which really does say a lot, both about their position and how divorced your view is from the actual reality of CAM practice.
It arises because that is expressly and with intent how the sCAMsters paint the rhetoric. The same way that atheists are “attacking Christmas” or “trying to take God away from people” or trying to “ban all prayer in schools” which is patently not true at all. It is all PR – from the other side of this conversation – since they have no ther substance.
I do not let the other side dictate how to “balance” my rhetoric… they are seeking to neuter it such that they have an easier time of it. “Don’t be so mean!” is essentially “give me a pass on a few things so I can still keep lying about others.” As DW said – “ruthless” in this case only means being adamantly consistent and never conceding simply for the sake of “not being mean.”
No. We are undifferentiated and indeed “ruthlessly” crusading against anything not supported by good evidence and science. It does not matter from whence it comes, as you may see in Dr. Hall’s recent post about the dis-utility of annual physical exams. As I tried to point out previously, it just so happens that most of what is clearly not supported by good evidence happens to be…. CAM.
Nobody is arguing this. It is the application that is of concern. Incorporating those things into actual medicine is not only uncontroversial here, but actively encouraged. Having them exist as stand alone “treatments” coupled with a heaping helping of inanity and woo is not. The fact that you continually and relentlessly (shall we say “ruthlessly?”) conflate the two is a source of frustration here.
I know where it came from. It was a term coined by the medical anthropology contingent. It was a term lectured to me in my undergrad as a differentiator from “healing.” It was often coupled as the catch-all term “Western BioMedicine.” If you like I can dig up some of my old papers where I used the term, commenting on its novelty and descriptive power.
However, it is a false term designed as a PR tool to further differentiate the “evil reductionist” ways of focusing only on symptoms and never to actually “heal” a patient.
The remainder of your paragraph reads disturbingly similarly to what my old med anthro profs (or Moerman and Kaptchuk) would say.
And you wonder why we here question your thoughts and rhetoric? You simultaneously lambaste our choice of words and apparent “stridency” whilst using the intentionally crafted verbiage of those who seek to promote CAM despite a lack of scientific evidence.
I find it depressing when I see examples of genuine harm come from it. I find it frustrating because it is like a zombie or The Black Knight – no matter how many times and how many ways it is utterly destroyed, it rises from the dead, re-iterates the same tired disproven claims, and then crows victory.
I do not have any issue understanding how or why it arises nor why people seek it out, despite your assertions otherwise. In fact, I have argued (and will continue) that it is you that lacks a complete understanding of the topic, since you refuse to acknowledge that in addition to everything you have just stated (which we all here already know quite well) there is a concerted political and ideological effort (similar to that of creationists) to further push CAM down our throats.
@DW:
It can indeed be a problem. And something we should be on the lookout for. However, as I said above, the answer is not to kowtow to the CAM apologists and use their definitions, their vernacular, and accede to their PR interpretation of us (as Peter consistently does).
When you are involved in a controversy, even a manufactroversy like this one, there will always be people who are insulted, think us mean, and attempt to use that to discredit us. Those people are simply not to be listened to – they are to be unflaggingly demonstrated to be wrong. If everyone likes you, then you are either doing something wrong or are so acqueiscent as to be completely impotent.
No, I disagree. To a non-insignificant degree it is quite necessary that certain people find us “mean.” The other option is to spin our wheels and accomplish nothing.
Frankly, I don’t know that the “image problem” of us attacking non-mainstream methods is entirely undeserved. There an article not so long ago where one of the doctors of the site was talking about the results of an electromagnetic therapy for cancers. He acknowledged that the science behind it was bad, the original usage of the therapy was bunkus and have been proven so, and yet, it was getting results. Immediately, most of the site descended on the paper and tore it apart, not on the virtue of its methodology or results, but its origin. I don’t think we ever got a follow-up on whether or not the therapy was found to be wrong, but the immediate reaction from the people here was hostility, frankly livid rage that this paper was showing such an outlandish technique working. I suspect that ultimately, the therapy was disproven, but anyone looking at the reactions would be entitled to a belief that we do attack alternative methods because they’re not our methods, not because they don’t work.
@DugganSC
“attacking non-mainstream methods”
It’s not a matter of attacking something because it is non-mainstream, but of questioning it when there are strong reasons for thinking it is implausible. It speaks to the central issue of this blog: that we need truly “science-based medicine” instead of simply “evidence-based medicine” that relegates prior plausibility and basic science to too low a level.
DugganSC said: “There an article not so long ago where one of the doctors of the site was talking about the results of an electromagnetic therapy for cancers. He acknowledged that the science behind it was bad, the original usage of the therapy was bunkus and have been proven so, and yet, it was getting results. Immediately, most of the site descended on the paper and tore it apart,…”
Funny, I thought Dr. Gorski was too kind with that study. How do we know it was “getting results”? It’s a leap to come to that conclusion from that one study. If I remember correctly, it was a mainstream study.
Given the purpose of this blog, of course the writers here are going to choose a subject that is appears very dubious and then “tear it apart” (critically analyze it) for their readers.
Warm and fuzzy people? Not if you cross them (generalizing). And simply disagreeing with some of their claims is often perceived as a threat, or just not worthy of their attention. Personally, I am trying very hard now not to resort to name-calling or put-downs, and in fact I often try to avoid getting into a discussion in the first place, but some CAM proponents can sure dish out the hostility, not to mention try to push crap down your throat.
@pmoran
Dr. Moran, I wanted to try to understand better where you’re coming from and so I looked back at older posts here and at your site and then Googled. Right now, I just want to say that I appreciate the fabulous work you have done with one of the best, most comprehensive anti-quackery resource on the web. You have truly been a positive force in my own understanding of what to believe and why/why not, for more than a decade.
Okay, back to criticizing you for your stance on integrated medicine and placebos
Thanks for the kind remarks , papertrail. Criticise all you like, but also don’t take anything on faith just because others say so. Good science requires the ability to question basic assumptions and to challenge preconceptions.
I contend that the somewhat understandable reflex impulse to regard CAM as an entirely worthless, dangerous and disposable human activity has inhibited examining the phenomenon in more impartial and rigorous ways. This should be the place for that.
Dr. Moran said: “I contend that the somewhat understandable reflex impulse to regard CAM as an entirely worthless, dangerous and disposable human activity has inhibited examining the phenomenon in more impartial and rigorous ways. This should be the place for that.”
It hasn’t been a reflex for me to reject all CAM outright, but more of a journey to figure out what is what with all the thousands of health claims (seems like thousands, at least), both conventional and so-called alternative – as well as things like anti-vaccinationist claims, climate change, paranormal claims, etc.
My conclusion, and why I appreciate this site and your work, is that science/critical thinking is the route for the person on the street to figure out how to discern the truth, even if it’s an imperfect and bumpy road. Many of us regular people, present or potential patients, want to see us speed up the trip to the truth in medicine with reforms to current systems, not go backward toward superstition and magic. And if it means sacrificing a few possibly useful/helpful currently “alternative” practices due to a negative bias that is based on the worthlessness, dangers, and disposability of the vast majority of “alternative” practices out there, it would be worth it.
So, anyway, I just hope you’re proud of the work you have done. I see (Googling) that you have had to put up with insults from people who didn’t want to hear the facts you presented about dubious cancer cure claims. It may have seemed as if no one was getting it. But I think there are plenty of people who are like me, who really want to hear the facts from science-based experts and don’t want to waste money and time and false hope on untested, or no better than placebo, treatments.
I hope you aren’t abandoning that effort. There are still people out there who need to know if, for example, they should spend $800 on shark cartilege for pancreas cancer (came close to doing that with my own father but the surgeon said it was too late – would have greatly preferred if he had advised that it was too dubious), spend their last days flying out to Brazil to see John of God to have him poke a rod up their nose and cut their chest to cure their breast cancer, travel to India to get a special homeopathic remedy that sounded credible because they heard about it through a mainstream organization, hire a Russian trained psychic to stop a recurring brain tumor over the phone after reading about him in the newspaper, or sell everything they own to head on out to Texas for Burzynski urine treatments, and on and on and on.
Dr. Moran said: “…has inhibited examining the phenomenon in more impartial and rigorous ways. This should be the place for that.”
I would like to know which particular CAM claims you think haven’t been handled by SBM impartially and rigorously enough. Maybe you have already done this and I missed it. If you don’t mind repeating.
Reflex? Really? Need I remind again that I have a degree in this nonsense? As do many of the other like minded commentators here?
This is grabbing for straws again Peter. “How can we spin placebo effects into justifying rank pseudoscientific garbage and quell our consciences to allow it to pass when our patients are desperate and we desperately want to help them?”
Finding ways to turn a blind eye is unbecoming of you.
I would like to know which particular CAM claims you think haven’t been handled by SBM impartially and rigorously enough. Maybe you have already done this and I missed it. If you don’t mind repeating.
A bit much to summarise, but I’ll try.
The only CAM claims that might be considered tolerable, within some contexts, are those obliquely made tenable by evidence concerning placebo responses, also by the recognition that patients often bring complex, individual human needs into medical interactions. I say “only” but this can potentially cover most of the subjective side of medicine
SBM allows for such influences but wants to appropriate them as an exclusively mainstream prerogative.
Limited acceptance of this side to CAM derives from considerations of honesty, fairness, self-awareness, and facing up to certain uncomfortable realities about medicine and its highly compulsive consumption rather than any enthusiasm for CAM on my part.
Athough, it has its practical side. Every man in the street knows that the mind can influence how we feel. The notion of placebo influences is not in the least strange to him. So that holding out that the most credible of the benefits that CAM claims for itself are due to such non-specific influences is as destructive, if not more, of the associated pseudoscience than pages of detailed scientiifc debunking. It attacks the every-day basis for belief (or uncertainty) concerning the pseudoscience, while being a tad permissive where there is might be benefits without disproportionate risk.
I have also challenged some other overly simplistic skeptical dogma concerning CAM, relating to why people do it and what they get out of it.
Don’t forget that in forums such as this zealotry is rewarded, moderate good sense not so much, so that extreme positions, even quite repellent ones, can become accepted as normal — even though good science normally errs in the opposite direction, towards caution.