Articles

Electrodermal Testing Part II: Legal and Regulatory Aspects

Last week I described electrodermal testing. I’m sure many readers thought, “There oughta be a law against that.” Well, there are laws. Unfortunately, having laws and enforcing them are two different things.

Some of these devices are not approved at all. Most have received 501(k) approval from the FDA as biofeedback devices so similar to previous devices that they do not require new approval — for biofeedback. It is illegal to use the devices for anything other than biofeedback. The FDA has prohibited their sale or importation for unapproved purposes like electrodermal testing; it has sent warnings to companies, raided clinics, and confiscated machines. States have prosecuted users for practicing medicine without a license. Medical boards have chastised licensed providers. The Quackwatch website lists these regulatory actions but points out that there has been no systematic effort to drive these devices from the marketplace.

Excuses, Excuses

One electrodermal testing website admits that what it is doing is illegal and tries to fight back with this specious disclaimer:

It is important to understand that the laws in the USA forbid me from being able to treat, diagnose, cure or prevent disease. The AMA has a patent on those words and only a licensed medical doctor can do that.  And although it is legal for a licensed medical doctor to violate the Hippocratic oath and prescribe toxic drugs that cause harm and sometimes even kill patients, it is illegal for me to claim you can be cured using natural, nontoxic remedies, even though thousands of people can testify how they have been healed using natural remedies.

These machines are being used to practice medicine without a license, but they think they can get around the law by offering a disclaimer and by espousing the fiction that they are not diagnosing or treating diseases but only detecting energy imbalances and advising patients about how to restore balance.

Here are some typical protestations:

  • I can only find imbalances that may be causing problems. It would be up to a medical doctor to determine if what I am finding IS the cause.
  • I wouldn’t call EAV biofeedback “treatment”. You don’t treat anything with EAV. Creating a vial of treated water for a client to take may help balance their energy. Balancing energy is not medical treatment. It is perfectly legal to own one for home usage.
  • And the reason all these people are spending money on this equipment is what??? Would they continue to invest in something that is “bogus”?
  • EAV is not anything like the medical tests that we are used to. It works by quantum physics not biology.
  • Yes, there are a bunch of enforcement actions. I assume that what is listed is about the entire list. Do you also want to list the claims made against regular M.D.s?
  • Something that shows up energetically does not necessarily mean that it is a physical condition!
  • We are only just now getting the scientific ability to test these [homeopathic] remedies by quantum physics.

In the training videos I mentioned in my previous article, the demonstrator answers questions from the audience that reveal more about the way they operate:

Q: I’m not a doctor. I have to send patients to an MD for IV infusions. What do you say when the doctor questions how you determined the patient needs it?

A: Tell him you determined it by electrodermal testing, similar to muscle testing [applied kinesiology] and ask him if what he does is any better. At least we have some monitoring device.

Q: One remedy you recommended is acid, but she has an acid problem.

A: That seems contradictory but we need it for her circulation, and the body can sort out what it needs.

Q: Is the circulation due to blockage in her superior vena cava?

A: No.

Q: Should she stop other medications or products?

A: Bring in the products and put them on the test tray. Medicine is a legal issue, so we can only show her what it does to her pancreas, we can’t tell her to stop using it. You might be liable if you told them to go off their meds.

Q: Will other medications interfere with our treatment?

A: Our treatment will not be as effective if they stay on their meds. Cancer treatments like chemo and radiation will usually interfere with our efforts.  If the patient needs to stay on medication, we can give more products to balance out the effect of prescription meds on liver and to reduce med side effects.

Q: [Something about] cancer showed up on the readings. Does that mean she has cancer?

A: I don’t think she has cancer, but if she doesn’t correct the problems in her body, I can guarantee you down the road she will have problems like that. Cancer loves miasms, acidosis, poor circulation, emotional issues, and immune dysfunction. She’s got ‘em all. It’s just a matter of time. You can’t tell a person they have cancer — just that that matches the picture. Biopsy is needed for medical diagnosis. You can treat it before it gets to the biopsiable stage.

Q: What if the patient says “Every time I come in you give me something different.”

A: Well duh, do you want to be on the same thing all your life if it’s not working? If it’s fixed, why keep taking it? The body prioritizes all the time, so what it needs today will not be what it needs tomorrow.

Regulatory Actions

The FDA, state attorney generals, professional licensing boards, and foreign regulatory agencies have all taken action to stop electrodermal testers.  Details of many of these cases can be found on Quackwatch.

An examination of 3 cases from my own state, Washington, highlights some of the problems with regulation.

The Ames Case

A licensed physician was using a LISTEN device to diagnose allergies. The findings of fact are interesting:

  • After he used the LISTEN machine, he wrapped the probe in tissue paper and had the patient hold the probe with tissue paper wrapped around it. When the patient asked why, he answered that he has done this so long, that he could do what the machine could do, and that he did not need the machine anymore.
  • He used the machine not only to diagnose, but to treat allergies.
  • He also used applied kinesiology, a phoney muscle testing procedure.
  • He used dubious hair and urine tests to determine that the patient had a mineral imbalance, and told him he needed treatment for metal poisoning.
  • He used what sounds like a chiropractic “activator” device on acupressure points.
  • He prescribed the Metabolic Type Diet, a diet with no scientific justification.

The Washington State Department of Health Medical Quality Assurance Commission suspended his license for 5 years. Only they didn’t, because the suspension was stayed as long as he (a) stops using the device, (b) undergoes quarterly practice reviews, and (c) pays a $5,000 fine. The MQAC’s decision was appealed but the state Supreme Court upheld the decision, saying that Ames had “led patients to believe that LISTEN could diagnose and treat allergies, when in fact it could do neither.”  Note that the board and the courts only considered his use of the device and did not even address any of his other questionable practices or his basic competence to practice medicine.

The Trasker Case

Joyce Trasker was convicted of practicing medicine and veterinary medicine without a license. She used the Orion and the Asyra devices to determine a patient’s “energy signature” and to prescribe homeopathic remedies. She offered testing on saliva and blood samples sent to her by mail. Eventually she began taking these samples and the machine onto an Indian reservation to do the testing, claiming that the State had no jurisdiction there. She claimed she was not practicing medicine. She even claimed that the right to free speech protected what she was doing. Her case went all the way to the state Supreme Court. She was ordered to cease and desist and to pay a fine of $10,000.

No problem: she simply moved a short distance across the state line to Idaho where she is still offering the same electrodermal testing for $295 per test. You can mail in saliva samples, even from Washington State: her website says “Washington may not prohibit its residents from patronizing an Oregon or Idaho business.” She is also involved in a long term campaign for the freedom to choose safe unregulated health care.

A Dropped Complaint

A few years ago I found a website for a local clinic offering electrodermal testing. After I filed a complaint with the medical board, all references to electrodermal testing mysteriously vanished from the website. The doctor and his lawyers threatened the medical board with legal action if they tried to act on the complaint. The complaint was dropped.

Confusing Terminology

The variety of devices and the many variants of terminology make it difficult to identify the magnitude of the problem. These devices are illegal and cannot be sold or imported, but they are still available. On E-bay I found 6 Biomeridian systems for sale. They seem to be going for around $5000 compared to an original price of $12,000 to $17,000.

If these systems do use some kind of frequency analyzer to capture EMF and then use a frequency generator to re-introduce that same signal back into the human body for “testing”, now they have produced what the FDA considers a radiation emitting device and not a galvanic skin response meter. The QXCI, EPFX, or SCIO falls into that category. The FDA banned importation of this device after an embarrassing exposé by investigative reporters in The Seattle Times featuring patients who died because they relied on the device to treat cancer.

What Can We Do?

In his exposé, Quackwatch’s Stephen Barrett says:

The devices described in this article are used to diagnose nonexistent health problems, select inappropriate treatment, and defraud insurance companies. The practitioners who use them are either delusional, dishonest, or both. These devices should be confiscated and the practitioners who use them should be prosecuted. If you encounter any such device, please report it to the state attorney general, any relevant licensing board, the FDA, the FTC, the FBI, the Better Business Bureau, and any insurance company to which the practitioner submits claims that involve use of the device.

I echo his plea. There is an online directory of practitioners that could be helpful in identifying some of the offenders, but there are undoubtedly many more who are avoiding publicity for fear of legal consequences. We have the tools to stop most of these offenders, but first we need to identify the offenders and then we need to actually use the tools.

 

 

 

Posted in: Diagnostic tests & procedures, Energy Medicine, Legal

Leave a Comment (36) ↓

36 thoughts on “Electrodermal Testing Part II: Legal and Regulatory Aspects

  1. So, a long time ago, when I was young and sick and easily duped…I was a patient of this psychologist named Julian Metter. He used a number of illegal electromagnetic “healing” devices. I was trying to treat my depression at the time and paid a lot of money to him for to use this hearing treatment on me, as well as some kind of zapper, a Rife machine, and a terrifying hyperbaric oxygen chamber. I am shocked my mother stood by while I let someone do all these things to me. I guess we really wanted me to be well. I had been sick and suffering from other medical problems as well as depression at the time and had been convinced by the alternative medicine religion to abandon the evils of “Western medicine.” It was a very dark time for me. After reading this post, I did a google search for him to see if he was still around and considered blowing the whistle.

    Turns out, the guy got busted several months ago. Here’s the news article.
    http://www.centredaily.com/2011/02/25/2543550/former-state-college-psychologist.html

    I find this amazing after all these years this guy finally gets arrested and fined. He was in this town for 20 years and was often open about how the FDA doesn’t know he has all these devices and would confiscate them if they did. We as his patients didn’t see this as a problem because we were already brainwashed to hate everything mainstream and thought he was some kind of medical hero. Five months in prison was all he got, but he did close his practice. So, justice can be done and he was also humiliated to boot. Too bad I can’t get my money back. Oh well — live and learn.

  2. Tell it like it is says:

    “It is important to understand that the laws in the USA forbid me from being able to treat, diagnose, cure or prevent disease. … it is illegal for me to claim you can be cured using natural, nontoxic remedies, even though thousands of people can testify how they have been healed using natural remedies.”

    Alternative ‘medicine doctors’ (AKA witches and warlocks) may administer ‘this’ or ‘that’ to cure an illness, and because the person gets well then go on to proclaim that ‘this’ or ‘that’ cures an illness. Such BE does ‘not prove’ ‘this’ or ‘that’ cures an illness.

    What such people are doing is playing what Ludwig Wittgenstein calls “bewitching language games” designed to “ensnare the ‘mark’ (AKA sucker)”.

    Throw away ‘blind faith’ based upon presented ‘proof’. It stands for NOTHING. Look for ways to ‘disprove’ such claims.

    When Alice said “I am sure I am ‘not’ Ada for her hair goes in such long ringlets and mine doesn’t go in ringlets at all; and I am sure I am not Mabel because I know all sorts of things, and she knows so very little” she is ‘disproving’ the claims that she is ‘not’ Ada or Mabel.

    However, when Alice says “but I can’t remember my multiplication tables or my geography so I ‘must’ have been changed for Mabel.” Alice is ‘accepting’ her own claim. This is ‘false determination’ that creates ‘fallacies’ (AKA false beliefs through misleading notions).

    Later at the Knaves ‘trial’ for stealing tarts, when the King declares that the Knave’s failure to sign the confession is clinching proof – “because an honest man would have signed his note”, Alice gives the correct analysis and states – “It doesn’t prove anything of the sort!”

    Working for the British Government has its perks. Now I have a moral dilemma. Should I give a ‘heads-up’ to everyone on a publication that is due to be published in October/November that will assist many people with making more considered value-judgments by acquiring the skill of ‘deductive logic’ (and much more besides)? – or – not reveal the title for sake of worrying about being lambasted, as I was when I gave the title of a publication to Chris that enabled J K Rowling to write ‘Harry Potter’ – and powered her to mega-stardom?

    Sticks and stones … here is the title: ‘Sherlock Holmes and Philosophy’ by Professor Josef Steiff – Associate Chair of the Film & Video Department at Columbia College, Chicago, and the author of ‘The Complete Idiot’s Guide to Independent Filmmaking’.

    Your call.

  3. windriven says:

    “but there are undoubtedly many more who are avoiding publicity for fear of legal consequences. ”

    On what legal footing might such ‘legal consequences’ stand?

  4. woo-fu says:

    TILIS, I was one of those “suckers.” After years of medical problems and not much resolution, having changed everything I could about my personal habits, including having the optimal diet as determined by both doctors & the dietitians I was referred to, my GP told me about an exciting new device they were testing in their office. Since I was already in for an appointment, they could test it on me, for free.*

    Right off the bat I was suspicious and told them so. But I was willing to give it a try to see what it was all about. Plus, I’d already had a couple of major medical events and was feeling exhausted and desperate. As you say, I was an easy mark.

    However, I was as interested as I was skeptical. I did try the supplements recommended to me as the ingredients were supposedly even better matched for me than what the doctor had prescribed previously. I did try to read the entire list before purchasing them–from the doctor*.

    Yes, the doc’s office was selling their own medicine, based on the recommendations of a machine. And, as I was too exhausted to think properly, I decided to trust my doctor. Not only did it not work, but the supplements actually did contain a couple of ingredients to which I am hypersensitive, especially when taken on a regular basis.

    When I tried to articulate this experience to the doctor, in the form of, “I think that machine is a piece of crap!” along with all the reasons why it does not, cannot and will not work–only then did the “well, this isn’t intended to treat or diagnose” BS come out. What the hell was this doctor using it for, then?

    Obviously, I’m not seeing this person anymore, and apparently even beyond my own reporting, others have their stories about the practice as well, even former employees.

    Unfortunately, this type of practice is extremely common where I’m from and stopping this one is like cutting the head off a hydra. Plus the local communities themselves have a lot of interest in seeing these businesses continue to thrive. Yep–not a medical practice anymore–it’s a business, and they want to monetize as many aspects as possible.

    These people all have their slick marketing fliers for their devices and therapies. I think we need some good fliers warning people about them, instead. But how do you cull all the good info down into a 1 pg flier?

    BTW–I quite enjoyed the logical references from L.C. :) A good reminder.

  5. windriven says:

    @nobodyyouknow

    I hope everyone here will follow your link to the news report of Metter’s conviction for Medicare fraud – a deceit quite apart from the use of the machine. I was also intrigued by the mention of a pending suit by a former patient who Metter ‘drugged with carbon dioxide’ and questioned while she was unconscious.

  6. woo-fu says:

    Yes, the doc’s office was selling their own medicine.

    Hmm–how does this one fall on the definition scale? Vitamin/herbal supplements prescribed by a doctor with the intent to treat and supposedly backed by scientific study?

    I should have used “BS” for “medicine” but the latter is certainly how it was marketed.

  7. bendmorris says:

    I love your blog and appreciate what you do here.

    A local chiropractor operating a “wellness center” carried out an unscientific “test” of EDT together with ICON Fitness, a major international manufacturer of sports equipment. Based on the results of this so called study, ICON is in the process of making EDT reimbursable through its own private medical plan, which will only serve as an encouragement for thousands of employees to try it out.

    Link: http://petersonwellnesscenter.com/icon.php

    I recently wrote the wellness center and advised them that I was planning on reporting them to the FDA as well as relevant state licensing boards. I plan on contracting someone at ICON as well. I would love it if you’d consider writing a post about their study.

  8. @winddriven

    Yes, I apologize for not being specific enough in my comment about what he was actually convicted for. It does make you wonder if it is possible to shut down some of these people based on other shady things they may be doing rather than going after the machines themselves. I suppose this is not going to be the case for all of the practitioners but it might be an interesting angle to take. Maybe not. Just a thought.

    He had one of this patients working for him for free processing the billing. She was basically following orders. He also had an untrained female assistant who didn’t even have a college degree. One thing that frightens me about alternadocs like this is how they can garner almost a worship from their patients because of false hope and promises. That makes me very sad for the sick, who have it hard enough as it is and don’t also need to be taken advantage of as well. But there are snakes everywhere who will capitalize on the suffering of others. I’m very lucky that my body didn’t suffer any damage from his treatments. Mostly my bank account did. Some other patients in the community were not so lucky.

  9. What’s the harm?

    “A: Our treatment will not be as effective if they stay on their meds. Cancer treatments like chemo and radiation will usually interfere with our efforts. If the patient needs to stay on medication, we can give more products to balance out the effect of prescription meds on liver and to reduce med side effects.”

    “The FDA banned importation of this device after an embarrassing exposé by investigative reporters in The Seattle Times featuring patients who died because they relied on the device to treat cancer.”

    It’s not just speculation and assertion that sCAM displaces and defers effective, scientific medical treatment. It is frequently NOT complimentary.

    Further more it displaces and discourages scientific, critical thinking regarding medical decisions; it’s only integrative in the sense that it integrates prescientific thinking into the practice of medicine.

  10. “It is frequently NOT complimentary”

    Perhaps I was even too generous there.

  11. Khym Chanur says:

    Most have received 501(k) approval from the FDA as biofeedback devices so similar to previous devices that they do not require new approval — for biofeedback.

    I wonder what you have to do to get FDA approval for a biofeedback device. Prove that it won’t electrocute the user?

  12. geack says:

    woo-fu,

    Not to pry, but it would be useful to know where you’re from (maybe just a region?) if such practices are becoming common in some places. I have some woo-susceptible family. Luckily this kind of BS doesn’t seem to have penetrated the actual doctors here in OH. I understand if you’d rather not provide the info.

    I’ve been reading this site regularly for a while now – thanks to everyone for a consistently useful dose of sanity.

  13. windriven says:

    @Khym Chanur

    It is actually 510(k), not 501(k) and it requires nothing but substantial equivalence to existing devices approved before some cut-off date (I’ve forgotten what that date is). There are, of course, a variety of regulations about electrical safety. But those really aren’t difficult with devices of this type.

  14. Tell it like it is says:

    All knowledge of the world must derive solely from sense-data (i.e. using our six senses) and our human ability to conceptualise and organise such data.

    With that as a given, we must ask what lies behind our precepts; not so much for formulating ideas; but to ask what basis there can be ‘for’ those ideas. In other words, our search for knowledge is primarily an exercise in scepticism to discover what is within our power to know.

    A factually significant proposition (i.e. a proposition that actually says something about the observable world) must be verifiable or falsifiable at least in principle, by some possible observations which would increase or decrease the probability of the proposition being true. Whatever is not empirically verifiable cannot be commented on, and to do so, is to spout nonsense.

    There is a story written by H G Wells called ‘The country of the blind’. In it, a one-eyed man finds himself in an isolated village where all of the inhabitants are blind. “Ah” thinks he “In the country of the blind, the one-eyed man is King – I shall rule them!”

    When he attempts to persuade the people of his faculty they treat him like a simpleton because they think that he is romancing; in much the same way sceptics doubt the existence of an engine that will provide all the electricity and all of the hot water and heating you or your community would ever need, whilst not contributing one jot to our planet’s carbon emissions.

    http://www.ehe.eu/english.asp

  15. Tell it like it is says:

    Each of the special sciences deals only with a fragment of the world.

    If one was to take the Hegelian ideal and undertake a cooperative enterprise to unify our scraps of knowledge into a higher synthesis, we may envisage that someone might succeed in fulfilling Einstein’s wife’s aim of unifying physics by constructing a general theory which would incorporate both quantum physics and the theory of relativity.

    It might then be shown that all other sciences are reducible to physics. There is now strong evidence to support the belief that the laws of chemistry are derived from physics, and that biological laws are derived from chemistry.

    Although psychiatry took a nasty stumble at the turn of the 20th Century when a guy called Sigmund Freud convinced the world that all motivation was related to sex – which opened the BE floodgates so we could all get covered in it; it is now shown that the laws of psychology and sociology are derived from biological laws.

    When all is eventually determined later in this Century (due around 2034), the programme will be complete and the quacks can forever stick their heads back under the water and show us their backsides.

    Anyone for duck-shooting?

    Murphy: Ah to be sure – you wasted a bullet shootin that duck – the fall would have killed it.

  16. Tell it like it is says:

    @nobodyyouknow

    “Too bad I can’t get my money back. Oh well — live and learn.”

    As your link confirms, you have all the ammunition you need to go after your money. Go to it! Its never too late – but make sure you use the ‘right’ law to cripple the bstrd.

    “Unfortunately, this type of practice is extremely common where I’m from and stopping this one is like cutting the head off a hydra.”

    Even hydra’s can be killed – if you know how – check out the story of ‘The Lampton Worm’.

    You provided your own evidence to kill this one when you stated “I’m very lucky that my body didn’t suffer any damage from his treatments. Mostly my bank account did. Some OTHER PATIENTS IN THE COMMUNITY were not so lucky.”

    Contact these good people, club funds, and put a case together – then see if your ‘community’ “have a lot of interest in seeing these businesses continue to thrive”.

    “One thing that frightens me about alternadocs like this is how they can garner almost a worship from their patients because of false hope and promises.” This is the very point Ludwig Wittgenstein was making when he stated “bewitching language games are designed to “ensnare the ‘mark’”.

    Alice Liddell was ‘ensnared’ on her seventh birthday – Lewis carol wrote ‘Alice in Wonderland’ and ‘Alice through the looking glass’ to teach her – and ‘all’ children – about how to avoid such ensnarement – see also Humpty Dumpty’s reference to ‘un-birthday’. Everything from ‘slithy toves’ (sly feral children who are out to deceive you) to deductive logic that a child can master to combat foe, is in there.

    It is a classic work with many many lessons and most certainly inspired L Frank Baum to write ‘The wonderful wizard of Oz’.

    He was the guy who (in my opinion) was the first person to write the first ‘American’ fairy tale. Not for Carroll or Baum trite moralistic tales and ‘fairy godmothers’- Baum wrote about the four main human desires: Dorothy wanted a HOME; the Cowardly Lion wanted COURAGE; the Straw Man wanted INTELLIGENCE; and the Tin Man wanted LOVE.

    “It does make you wonder if it is possible to shut down some of these people based on other shady things they may be doing rather than going after the machines themselves. I suppose this is not going to be the case for all of the practitioners but it might be an interesting angle to take. Maybe not. Just a thought.”

    Its no idle ‘thought’ – it’s a very valid ‘thought’ that has visited you. Use the most appropriate law to demolish these vile creatures who spew black venomous bile. In Britain we have ‘The Trades Descriptions Act’ – we also have other laws that can be used with more adroitness – a) because they secure the win; and b) it catches the opponent off-guard.

    Thirty sum thousand Spanish religious zealots preaching their version of benevolence once turned up on our British waters, bringing with them their benevolent racks, iron maidens, Spanish boots, and crucifixes upon which to burn heretics.

    Raleigh led a conquest with just 421 ‘brave and true men’ and ‘together’ sank most of the Spanish Armada. He did this by ordering his men to shoot off the ‘bowsprit’ of the ‘galleons’ (floating castles) – which instantly took out all of the sails; and he then gave an order that systematically sank each galleon by doing something really barmy – he insisted that his cannons fired their shots into the wood ‘below’ the water-line – in the belief that holes in the hull ‘below’ the water-line might cause water to enter the craft, and as the craft filled up with an unlimited supply of sea-water, the craft to sink. He was right (fancy that).

    Those that saw what was taking place began to retreat. They couldn’t retreat back towards Spain – their passage was blocked by a load of disabled Spanish ships bobbing about on the water; so they elected instead to retreat by going up to the top of the ‘great’ isle (AKA ‘great Britain’ – the big bit) and sail down the West side.

    It was August and many were enjoying a beautiful summer having Tarot readings because they hadn’t yet invented psychiatry and counselling sessions, and as what remained of the Spanish fleet sailed past Morecambe in the Irish Sea, a huge storm brewed up out of nowhere – and sunk the lot of em. So you see – small can bring the mighty down – ask David – he only had a sling-shot.

    Oh – nearly forgot – our motto is ‘God on my right’ – I wonder why the Spanish (and everyone else before and since) have failed in their quest to take over Britain.

    Have a good day.

    TILIS

  17. Tell it like it is says:

    @Karl Withakay

    “Our treatment will not be as effective if they stay on their meds. Cancer treatments like chemo and radiation will usually interfere with our efforts. If the patient needs to stay on medication, we can give more products to balance out the effect of prescription meds on liver and to reduce med side effects.”

    We are back to a rather inscrutable form of “bewitching language games are designed to “ensnare the ‘mark’”. I have recommended a superb book on deductive logic that has passed your Library of Congress assessment for it to be made available to the general public. It will be available in October.

    May I also be bold without being presumptuous, and recommend a film currently available on DVD. It is called ‘The Constant Gardener’ – it is a real eye-opener.

    On “It is frequently NOT complimentary” – replace the word ‘it’ with the definite article and delete the word ‘frequently’.

    Complementary – a word here which means ‘to flatter’ is often used by ‘medicine doctors’. Ask if such people mean ‘augment’ – a word here which means ‘enhances what is already taking place’. If the answer is BE then – you pays yer money …

    On “The Seattle Times featuring patients who died because they relied on the device to treat cancer”. Be careful! These persons presumably had terminal cancer. They relied on the device to bring them HOPE. The vile spew and peer pressure may have turned their minds against trying ‘proven’ alternatives – such as chemotherapy – but the best you are going to get is a short extension of life. That opens up the debate as follows:

    What is life without quality of life?
    Where is the line between legitimate deception and cheating?
    Can we act more effectively if we rely on instinct (the sixth sense)?
    Why is it ‘logical reductionism’ is not taught at every school and can we do something to change that?
    Do you know the most potent (and fastest) logical reductionism is AND logic (Any LO = LO = Any FALSE = FALSE)?
    Do you care?

    Regards,

    TILIS

  18. TILIS – I don’t think you can presume that the patients were terminally ill. Sometimes these kinds of alternative “treatments” delay diagnoses of cancer (as it did for the lady with leukemia in the Seattle article). Sometime people are convinced that the alternative treatment will be better than conventional medicine, even with cancers that have a good chance of remission. Somewhere on this site* is an article on a woman who had breast cancer and pretty good odds of survival with conventional medicine but pursued alternatives and died.

    *deluged with the search results on breast cancer.

  19. Nescio says:

    TILIS,

    I was trying to ignore this, but I have failed, but my irritation is too great. What on earth is the point of this vast outpouring of irrelevancy? Most of what you write is either incomprehensible, inaccurate or irrelevant.

    The “engine that will provide all the electricity and all of the hot water and heating you or your community would ever need, whilst not contributing one jot to our planet’s carbon emissions” is nothing of the sort. It generates electricity by burning natural gas, which produces carbon dioxide, and is certainly not carbon neutral.

    I pity any child that tries to use the Alice books as guides to avoid ensnarement by “bewitching language games”. These books are simply imaginative nonsense, and can be interpreted in many diverse and contradictory ways. For example Aleister Crowley claimed that the Jewish Kabballah was contained within Dodgson’s works. Similarly, numerous interpretations have been made of The Wizard of Oz, including suggestions that it is an allegory about the Gold Standard.

    a huge storm brewed up out of nowhere – and sunk the lot of em

    Nope. The Spanish Armada largely survived, only about 50 of the 151 ships that set out were wrecked, the rest made it back to Spain. It is not true that the ships were loaded with Inquisitors and implements of torture. Walter Raleigh was in America at the time and had nothing to do with it. Perhaps you mean Francis Drake?

    You wrote, “our motto is ‘God on my right’”. No it’s not, it’s ‘dieu et mon droit’ which means ‘God and my right’.

    ‘The Constant Gardener’ is a work of fiction, I have read the book by John le Carré, though I haven’t seen the film. Have you any evidence that drug companies routinely assassinate anyone who criticizes their activities? You might find it more eye-opening to look at the case it was based on instead of an elaborate fictional embellishment.

    On “It is frequently NOT complimentary” – replace the word ‘it’ with the definite article and delete the word ‘frequently’.

    Which gives us “The is NOT complimentary”, which makes no sense.

    Complementary – a word here which means ‘to flatter’

    No it doesn’t! The word ‘complimentary’ means flattering or gratis, ‘complementary’ is something that augments or adds to.

    These persons presumably had terminal cancer.

    Why do you presume that? There have been several cases of people with cancer that is treatable conventionally with a good chance of success dying because they chose CAM instead, or for all practical purposes declined treatment. As Michele points out, one of the patients mentioned in the Seattle Times story, as you would have seen if you had bothered to follow the link, died of undiagnosed leukemia, which is by no means untreatable.

    the best you are going to get is a short extension of life

    In cases of terminal cancer, of course that’s true by definition. In other cases chemotherapy can save lives and cure. I have a friend who had Hodgkins back in 1982 which was treated with chemotherapy alone, and she is still alive and well today. Childhood leukemia is routinely cured using chemotherapy, and most forms of adult leukemia have a good 5 year survival rate, up to 90% for some types.

    You have written several times about the value of logic, yet you seem to have forgotten the most important lesson – garbage in, garbage out. You can have the best grasp of logic in the world, but if the information you are basing it on is BE (to use your terminology) you are lost.

  20. Tell it like it is says:

    @Nescio Hi and thanks for your reply and the effort you put in to read my comments.

    I like your reply – not a lot – but I like it.

    This topic is about the legal and regulatory aspects pertaining to products that can be placed under the umbrella of QUACKERY.

    No I hadn’t read the Seattle article when I replied – which is why I wrote ‘presumably’ had ‘terminal’ cancer. In my haste to reply, that may have been remiss of me – but please do not think that I am guilty of any form of self-serving bias – I am not.

    Let me make my opinion publicly known. I believe in science – it has served us well, and I DETEST QUACKERY and every avenue should be explored to bring these quacks – the vilest of charlatans – to book.

    I am happy to hear there has been success and life has been prolonged by catching cancer early – MANY ARE NOT SO FORTUNATE.

    I lost my sister and my bestest friend to cancer, and a very close friend of mine has recently had radical mastectomy to both breasts, so having read the stories of these people who had been ‘suckered in’ – a term which over here means ‘conned’ by confidence tricksters in the most vilest of ways (‘marks’ are certainly not ‘suckers’), in an emotive moment I wrote “The vile spew and peer pressure may have turned their minds against trying ‘PROVEN’ alternatives – SUCH AS CHEMOTHERAPY – but the best you are going to get is a short EXTENSION OF LIFE.”

    I am utterly appalled to the point of vomiting to hear that delays caused by QUACKS prevented patients from having an opportunity to have an extended period of life.

    The film I cited was to highlight what actually does take place. The film may be fiction – the events are based upon fact. As to whether the case to which you refer was the case dramatised in the film – you might think so – I couldn’t possibly comment. All I can say is the BBC’s Alex Last in Nigeria says the ‘P’ case has had a damaging effect on attempts to get the whole population to accept polio immunisation in northern Nigeria and that Kano was one of the Nigerian states which refused to take part in a World Health Organization vaccination programme, leading to a re-emergence of polio in Nigeria and neighbouring countries. Those who plan to visit Egypt to see the marvels and do not believe in vaccines BEWARE!

    Criminal Justice is one thing – and I appreciate that two wrongs do not make a right and I am not here to spout on the paradox of whether punishments are also crimes – but the I consider that the laws and the punitive measures are inadequate when people maliciously have their lives destroyed or shortened. We are here once – and for a very short time – and we must all play the game of ‘life’ as we best can. Even here, I am unsure if we are playing ‘Get in there’, ‘Put that in your pipe and smoke it’, ‘Take that’, or something else entirely. “The road to hell is paved with good intention and hell sends forth its demons” (Dante’s Inferno)

    My game plan is to read and digest the articles and (hopefully) pass worthwhile comment – not pass judgement. I perceive being judgemental as short-term thinking, and such short-term thinking that irrationally ignores or under-values, or de-values long-term interests serves no purpose whatsoever. The moving finger writes – and having written moves on – never going back to cancel even half a line. (Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam – Edward Fitzgerald translation)

    To the person at the top of the blog session and everyone else who has suffered untold physical, emotional, spiritual, and psychological damage at the hand’s of others, that affects that person’s well-being each and every day of their lives I say this: if ‘I’ were that person:

    I would sue the charlatan for a bare minimum of ONE MILLION DOLLARS – a life-times lost earnings and life opportunity because of the harm caused; and on the proceeds I would systematically go after EACH AND EVERY PERSON that participated in my misery.

    I would NOT use a lawyer within a hundred miles of were those events took place, because although I would be paying that lawyer a fee, I know that a local lawyer would ‘tip the wink’ to enemy stakeholders and interested parties so that THEY were forewarned – which is equivalent to being forearmed. A bit like having your hand tipped by an onlooker when playing poker.

    No. What I would do if ‘I’ was under the jurisdiction of American legislation is:

    a) determine EVERY applicable law that relates to wilful negligence and lack of due care and attention – be it health and safety, lack of due diligence, failure to show due diligence, wilful negligence, criminal fraud, deception, criminal neglect, etc. to attack the harm on UNEXPECTED grounds.
    b) compile the cases (more below)
    c) source SPECIALIST lawyers in each and EVERY applicable piece of legislation from NEW YORK
    d) hire a professional negotiator to negotiate a ‘no win – no fee’ deal with each lawyer.
    e) take out a loan to do this and fight my cause so as to reduce the impact of short-term financial pain.
    f) sue for the amount stated on EVERY front – not ANY front – EVERY front – this alone will bankrupt the persons involved fighting back.
    g) play my cards close to my chest – surprise attack and no ‘egg on face’ if I stumble or fail (which – trust me – I wouldn’t)
    h) move well away from the flack area.

    Naturally I would take heed of the fact that proving the RIGHT to hold POSSESSION is NINE TENTHS of the LAW, and that DEFINITION is ALL, and that ERRORS OF JUDGEMENT can (and do) SCUPPER court cases so prior to setting out on my journey, to prove BEYOND ALL REASONABLE DOUBT that THAT product/advice/treatment IS the CAUSE of the attested HARM, I would do my homework and:

    a) collect evidence of FALSE INTENT – be it flyers, proclamations, or testimonials promoting the treatment and its false ‘promises’.
    b) procure EVIDENCE OF HARM TO ME – to include receipts, testimonials, letters of intent and expectation, before and after states, acute and chronic conditions, total number of patients treated, number of patients that got well, number of patients that didn’t see improvement, numbers that came out worse-off because of the treatment, etc. and so forth.
    c) collect and collate EVIDENCE OF HARM TO OTHERS such as damming articles, testimonials from those who didn’t improve under the treatment, suffered under the treatment, or came out worse-off having undergone the treatment.

    Through chronic conditions of myself and others I would demonstrate:

    Disasters had incubated (i.e. that they were accidents waiting to happen).

    There was an INCIDENT CHAIN and show how it culminated in DISASTER.

    That HAZARDOUS ATTITUDES were used to falsify and apply pressure, and show how such attitudes had duped me and other stakeholders, and caused us deliberate and intentional harm.

    ENOUGH – the sun is shining and I have an urgent appointment to keep with with my bicycle. Although the rest of your comment does not appertain to the topic, I will attempt to make time to answer the rest later – oil your chuckle muscles.

    Have a good day,

    TILLIS

  21. Nate Dogg says:

    @windriven

    It is actually 510(k), not 501(k) and it requires nothing but substantial equivalence to existing devices approved before some cut-off date (I’ve forgotten what that date is). There are, of course, a variety of regulations about electrical safety. But those really aren’t difficult with devices of this type.

    Substantial equivalence to any marketed device, actually, whether that device is on the market due to already being marketed before the 1976 cutoff, a Premarketing Authorization Application (PMA), or a 510(k) of its own.

  22. kators2 says:

    Very interesting articles.

    So these devices are not real medical devices. Can we assume that the companies that make these things will sell to anyone regardless of qualification and regulation?

    Do manufacturers believe that they train people to diagnose as doctors? What happens if someone is damaged or refuses proper medicine because of this? The person running this kind of machine is responsible, but not the manufacturer as well?

    How can this be allowed?

  23. Tell it like it is says:

    @Nescio Hi again. Hope you had a good day yesterday.

    Please excuse me if some of this is ‘off-topic’, however, I did promise to reply to your comments, and here is my response.

    On ‘Dieu et mon droit’. Despite the French getting lost wondering around our isle for a short time, which resulted in a few French words entering our vocabulary (pretty much all words ending in ‘able’ or ‘age’ – table, vegetable, language, adage, ..) and us wiping the floor with them at the battle of Agincourt, I do not profess to be an expert in the French tongue.

    That said, I concede that the ‘et’ in the motto is indeed ‘and’ – which makes it just as splendid – God AND ‘my’ right when one is a ‘defender of the faith’. How good is THAT?

    The original wording of the motto, which started life with King Henry V in the fifteenth Century, was ‘Dieu et mon droict’ – which gave us (as I have been reliably informed) God and my DIVINE right. AWESOME!

    I have no idea why the ‘c’ was dropped – which radically changed the meaning of the motto – but a similar situation occurred in America – only in this instance, your motto was completely revitalised for something entirely different.

    Now – on ““It is frequently NOT complimentary” – replace the word ‘it’ with the definite article and delete the word ‘frequently’.” this is a joke with two punch-lines.

    The first joke is in reference to the usage of ‘the definite article’ and the sloppy usage and application of ‘indefinite article’. The ‘article’ is the ‘subject’ part of the sentence to which one is referring – usually a verb. Poor use of grammar causes ‘split infinitives’ to occur. This causes verb confusion and misinterpretation of the ‘subject matter’ because the reference is ‘lost in translation’. We are all guilty of it so the correspondent is not alone.

    ‘Indefinite article’ is a phrase which here means ‘an article without reference’. Such words include: ‘it’, ‘that’, ‘those’, ‘them’, ‘his’, ‘her’, ‘they’, ‘mine’, ‘yours’, etc.

    So – back to the plot. Referring to the sentence ‘It is frequently NOT complimentary.’, if we replace the ‘It’ in the sentence with the definite article ‘Quack medicine’, the sentence will read as follows: ‘Quack medicine is frequently NOT complimentary’.

    I will now address the second joke. By removing the word ‘frequently’ from the expression, the sentence now reads ‘Quack medicine is NOT complimentary’. By removing the said word we have removed the CONDITIONAL CLAUSE in the sentence, and changed the declaration into a STATEMENT.

    I promised you a chuckle. Here it is:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYfjCUeCPMM

    And finally. Your first reference was taken from a personal reply to nobodyyouknow, and the second reference was taken from a personal reply to Karl Withakay.

    This begs several questions: Did you ask permission to read their private mail? Was it granted? Or did you take it upon yourself to assert you ‘right’ to be nosy and meddlesome?

    Have a good day,

    TILIS

  24. tills “This begs several questions: Did you ask permission to read their private mail? Was it granted? Or did you take it upon yourself to assert you ‘right’ to be nosy and meddlesome?
    Have a good day,”

    Oh please, you are posting on a comment board on the Internet. Bad enough you take a huge amount of space with average thoughts that you find SO IMPRESSIVE, now you expect the SBM blog to function as your own private email too?

    If you post obviously wrong information here, you are open to correction – by anyone.

  25. allen says:

    My wife was tested in the Standard Enzyme clinic – at the time I think it was called Bremen Health Clinic or something similar. The diagnosis included parasites, acidity, mercury, heavy metals, pancreas, circulation, myasms, etc. – very similar to the conversation described in the first article. I think the cause of all this was determined to be an emotional problem with her mother around the age of 10 or something like that.

    The result was maybe a dozen vitamins, homeopathics, IVs for minerals, iv chelation, special homeopathic remedies “imprinted” into IV bags, mona vi, some kind of amazon herbs, and of course special detoxifying footbaths. And bach flower remedies – can’t forget those important bach flowers for the emotions. Treatment would have cost around a thousand dollar in pills and liquids alone, not to mention all the chelation and other IV medicines. Additional testing was required at 6 week intervals.

    What bothered me the most was that they had a room full of very ill people getting their IVs and a waiting room full of people in line for IVs, each one given the promise of some kind of cure if they would only stick with the regimen. One of the patients waiting in line was a kindergarten age boy whose mother was taking him to cure his cancer.

    Does anyone know how many of these things are out there being used every day? Someone made a comment about liability – so who is responsible, the company that makes the machine or the clinic that uses it as a medical diagnostic device? What about when the clinic and the manufacturer are the same place?

    I’m sure a lot of people would want their money and time back, maybe even families who lost loved ones to this kind of fraud. What is a systematic approach to disabling this kind of fraud?

  26. Tell it like it is says:

    Hi everyone. Hope you are enjoying a good day.

    This blog on law has been a right little belter – almost the best yet. On the journey:

    We’ve had French lessons – oo la la.

    Enjoyed a little teasing on the battlefront by moi when the British had to prove a point (yet again) and walk away pretty much unscathed (of course we know Sir Walter Raleigh was in America – ask the legendary American comedian Bob Newhart).

    Straightened out a piece of flawed logic when someone failed to realise that those Spanish galleons represented the very benevolent ‘Spanish Inquisition’.

    Played with an indefinite tussle with the English language.

    Chuckled at someone who completely missed the point I was making about the Law (the topic) by referring to the film ‘The Constant Gardener’; and then throws down a gauntlet (which I now pick up) regarding assassination of a victim who uncovered corruption in Africa – completely ignoring the fact that two American presidents and Martin Luther King were assassinated for their beliefs in the land of the free.

    In reference to that persons comment, we have recently seen the demise of ‘The News of the World’ newspaper following a phone-hacking scandal. The NOTW ran for 168 years and was Britain’s biggest selling newspaper – owned by news International Chairman James Murdock.

    Investigations by the Metropolitan Police have to date identified over 4,000 victims of the NOTW vile practices; embracing celebrities, murder victims, and members of Her Majesty’s Armed Forces – including recently bereaved heroes killed in Afghanistan (who had their voice-mail intercepted) serving and protecting their country, and Royalty.

    Take heed!

    http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/ex-news-of-the-world-reporter-dead

    Alice got a look in – yaaaay. This is a book that was given to me when I was eight years old by my mother, not long before she passed away, and at 23, I still marvel at the wonderful lessons it contains – and the fact that Wonderland is where we live.

    I appreciate allegories can be applied to any masterwork (and love the ones cited – inspirational). Is ‘The Nutcracker’ ballet a story for children, or are the rats communists and the masterwork is depicting Anastasia and the demise of the Romanov empire? This observation brings home the fact that ‘all’ of our ‘laws’ are simply devices that ‘best-fit’ what we ‘observe’ – nothing more than that.

    On ‘energy medicine’: we read about a guy who believes that the ‘Sterling Engine’ consumes fossil fuel to operate – which it doesn’t – it is a wholly self-contained unit that only requires a heat-source to operate.

    There is an American version of the Stirling engine that uses a parabolic mirror to provide the required heat source from the Sun to make the engine operate. The reflector is mounted on a unit that tracks the Earth’s orbital path as the Earth rotates past the Sun, thus ensuring that the sun’s rays constantly remain focused onto the Sterling engine – which then powers the tracker and generates heat and electricity in abundance in a clean and safe manner. And with an energy transfer efficiency exceeding a ‘huge’ 90%, we are talking about a small machine producing in excess of 40 kilowatts – enough to provide a small community with all of its energy needs.

    And finally, to top it all, the lovely lady from Michigan rose to the bait on reading private mail in a public blogspace – and then really made our day by implying I was receiving private emails via the blog and I should refrain from doing it. Priceless! You couldn’t make it up.

    I love you all.

    Keep it real – keep it lively – keep it fun – keep it interesting – and everyone will read the bits that truly matter – how to use the law to decimate CHARLETANS.

    Have a great day

    TILIS

  27. Scott says:

    If you want to just spout off random nonsense with no relationship to the topic of the post, start your own blog.

    And continuing to harp on the “private mail” thing really makes you look like an utter moron, given that it was in fact completely public.

  28. Nescio says:

    I’m not sure why I bother really, and apologies to bystanders for yet more off-topic material, but I shall defend my good pseudonym anyway…

    TILIS,

    If you are really an employee of the British government, as you claim, it seems odd that you were unaware of the meaning of the motto of the UK.

    I wonder why the Spanish (and everyone else before and since) have failed in their quest to take over Britain.

    Apart from the Romans, of course, and the Anglo-Saxons, and the Vikings, and the Normans. The Americans seem to have done a pretty good job too. Not only have they largely taken over British popular culture, but Britain has been occupied by the US military for the past 60 years. That Murdoch bloke that runs the British media is an American too isn’t he (not by birth perhaps but by nationality)?

    I fail to see how your comment regarding, “‘It is frequently NOT complimentary” was in any sense a joke, even after your garbled explanation. Maybe it’s a sense of humor failure on my part. By the way, “the definite article” in English is the word “the” or sometimes “this” or “that”, it is not the noun it refers to. “Frequently” is not a conditional clause, it is an adverb.

    Your accusation that I am being “nosy and meddlesome” for replying to a private comment is surely also an obscure joke. As Michele and Scott have pointed out, if you want to keep your communications private the comments section of a public blog, which is essentially a discussion group, is a very poor choice of venue.

    I did not fail to realize that “those Spanish galleons represented the very benevolent ‘Spanish Inquisition”. I objected to your statement that the Spanish Armada were, “bringing with them their benevolent racks, iron maidens, Spanish boots, and crucifixes upon which to burn heretics.” This is a myth.

    Several of the sunken Spanish ships have been excavated, and no implements of torture have yet been discovered – it seems the propaganda spread by Elizabeth and her cronies to “inflame the hatred of the nation” (From ‘Curiosities of Literature’ by Isaac Disraeli) is believed by some to this day.

    The implements of torture in the Tower of London that are supposed to be from the Armada are with one exception not Spanish, and that exception, the collar referred to below, we now know predates the Armada by several years. From ‘London – Volumes 1-2 edited by Charles Knight’ p278:

    “Down even to the times of our excellent great grandfathers and grandmothers, people used to go and look at the various instruments of torture here exhibited, and lift up their hands and eyes in amazement at the cruelty of the Spaniards, and the wonderful escape we had all had from those devilish instruments. Later researches have satisfactorily shown that most of these, if not all, however repugnant their use may appear to the feelings and ideas of Englishmen, are of genuine English manufacture, and have wrung the groan of unendurable anguish from many an English prisoner, long before the Armada swept across the visions of its projector, bridging over, as it were, the way from the Spanish to the English throne. One instrument alone of the different varieties here shown, the Collar of Torture, is now attributed to the Spaniards; and it is remarkable enough, that of all those monstrous inventions, the collar must have inflicted the mildest suffering. It weighs about fourteen pounds and a half, and is armed with small knobs or studs of a pointed form, but not sharp.”

    It’s worth noting that the torture of Catholics in England at the time rivaled or even exceeded the Inquisition in barbarity, which was one of the reasons Philip of Spain sent the Armada. Once a year people in Britain still burn an effigy of a Catholic who was horribly tortured to death just a few years after the Armada, in a ritual an Irish friend of mine calls “burn a Catholic night”.

    Also, it seems the failure of the Spanish Armada was due to a combination of poor planning, bad luck and inclement weather, rather than the pluck of brave Englishmen, and divine Providence.

    Perhaps I did miss the point you were making about ‘The Constant Gardener’. What was it exactly?

    As to whether the case to which you refer was the case dramatised in the film – you might think so – I couldn’t possibly comment.

    The author has explicitly stated that it is based on the Kano case. If you are going to point out the misdeeds and shortcomings of pharmaceutical companies, there is no shortage of real-life cases to choose from without confusing things by referring to fiction.

    What has this fictional work to do with the assassinations of American presidents (or News International come to that)? Oh, and Egypt is a neighboring country of Nigeria, it’s 2000 miles away on the opposite side of Africa, and of the Sahara Desert.

    On ‘energy medicine’: we read about a guy who believes that the ‘Sterling Engine’ consumes fossil fuel to operate – which it doesn’t – it is a wholly self-contained unit that only requires a heat-source to operate.

    Coal-fired power stations are also wholly self-contained units that only require a heat source to operate. I’m sure my central heating system could be adapted to work without consuming fossil fuels if I had a huge parabolic mirror mounted on my roof. I think most of us are aware of solar energy. The Stirling Engine is an efficient way of converting thermal energy to kinetic energy, but you have to provide a source of heat.

    You wrote of “an engine that will provide all the electricity and all of the hot water and heating you or your community would ever need, whilst not contributing one jot to our planet’s carbon emissions” but you linked to a site that sells devices that run on natural gas.

    I suspect you could run one on hot air ;- )

    Have a nice day.

  29. libby says:

    HH:

    Perhaps the error is veering away from scholarly reference materials. There appears no rational reason to take such a path.

  30. Chris says:

    libby, what path?

  31. libby says:

    Please ignore my previous post. It is in the wrong thread.

  32. woo-fu says:

    @geack

    I live on the fringes of a resort town, and I do think it makes a difference in terms of the tolerance of local physicians and medical establishments towards unproven alternative treatments.

  33. indigo says:

    You listen to Stephen Barrett. There is information all over the internet that he was delicensed. Is this your expert opinion?
    Do any of you get out into the world or do you just sit around a poke holes at anything that moves? Looked up his name and didn’t find alot of positive information the guy. In fact, most of the results were quite negative. It concerns me that you would use the opinion of someone who is not licensed but offers expert opinions. Scientific-based?????

    1. Harriet Hall says:

      @indigo,
      I’m sorry to see that you are repeating misinformation that has been spread by Stephen Barrett’s enemies. He is not “delicensed.” He has held Pennsylvania license number MD005361E since 1958, and it is listed as current on the state website. You can look it up yourself at http://www.licensepa.state.pa.us/ His Quackwatch website is solidly science-based as are his books, including the textbook Consumer Health. Since he retired from the active practice of medicine he has dedicated his life to being a consumer advocate for health care. For many years now I have been associated with him as an advisor to Quackwatch and co-author, and I have found him to be meticulous about providing solid references for everything he writes and to be rigorously science-based. Can you point out anything he has written that is inaccurate or that is not science-based?

      In this and your other posts all you have done is insult people and provide testimonials. Since you don’t provide scientific evidence, I guess we can assume you don’t have any.

  34. WilliamLawrenceUtridge says:

    Indigo, look up his name and you see a lot of websites that make money off of the quackery he criticizes attacking him. Consider the source. You are no doubt a knee-jerk reactionary critic of Big Pharma and constantly harp on the corrosive influence of pharmaceutical manufacturers on the scientific process. However, do you apply a similar degree of criticism, reflexive distrust and simple common-sense suspicion regarding the critiques and attacks of acupuncturists and homeopaths on Dr. Barrett? These are people who directly make their money from the approaches Dr. Barrett criticizes. Consider the source for both Big Pharma and Alt Med, or you’re a hypocrite.

    You could find some information about Dr. Barrett’s licensing and general attacks upon him here.

Comments are closed.