This is a bit loose, Mark. P<.001 is now "barely significant"? Two measurements (which correlated very plausibly between the three groups) are now "multiple tests"? Were those confidence intervals unusually large for medical studies involving subjective complaints with "placebo responsive" conditions (I don't know, — I am no statistician either, but I seriously doubt it)?

If you really believed the findings were this easy to dismiss on statistical grounds, then there was no real need for your extensive explanation of how the differences observed were probably due to reporting biases. I asked you to support that view further at the time, but you either missed several comments or chose not to answer.

Note also that most of the findings in that study are replicated by numerous other studies on acupuncture using sham and "untreated" controls, including the differences (typically much smaller, of course) between sham and real acupuncture.

The only difference here was this unusually poor performance from sham acupuncture. That fits your case that there was a very inadequate placebo for any comparison of "real" and "sham", but it does not exclusively support any particular explanation for the apparent "effects" observed here, and also in many other studies.

I was somewhat taken aback to find myself paying $400 for a feline ultrasound (heart murmur) a few years ago.

I don’t remember the price, but perhaps seven years ago I was referred to a specialty vet clinic way out in the suburbs for a liver ultrasound. Two things stand out: (1) That it was way nicer than the local university medical center. (2) The somewhat shaken look on the doctor’s face when she came out to ask whether they could administer a sedative, even though I had warned them in advance that he was, shall we say, rather a tough cat.

“Outside of vaccines and some biologics such as Rituxan, I cannot think of any medical intervention whose affect upon disease physiology persists longer than a few days after cessation.”

I might be misunderstanding your meaning here.

Ketamine for depression or for treatment of complex regional pain syndrome seems to be capable of lasting long after serum level of drug are gone. (ECT has a lasting effect as well on depression as well.)

Radionuclides for metastatic bone pain?

Bisphosphonates have long lasting effects on bone density as well as on hypercalcemia or perhaps bony metastatic pain.

Chemical or electrical cardioversions?

———-

None of this should suggest in any way that I don’t generally agree with and appreciate your post. Or that I think that acupuncture has any medical indications.

Perhaps this has something to do with toxiplasmosis?

That’s really scary. Have the SCAM folks got a fix for that too?

I was somewhat taken aback to find myself paying $400 for a feline ultrasound (heart murmur) a few years ago. I cannot imagine how much a transplant would set one back.

That is one possible explanation, but is it the most likely reason for people taking less medication for symptoms?

If placebo responses are as capable as some think (without going to the overly-imaginative extremes of a few) then it is likely that CAM modalities will regularly produce results like this. Can we defend the position that patient biases at certain end points could retrospectively influence the number of tablets used for symptom relief?

Statistical variation. Picking out that one point as important is a classic case of failing to correct for multiple comparisons. The error bars would have to be MUCH smaller to say there’s any effect there at all.

We can, of course, choose to regard that as some other kind of study glitch, but there are other studies, along with those suggesting considerable placebo responsiveness of allergic rhinitis, that make this a plausible finding.

I agree that the superiority of “real” acupuncture over sham is more likely to be a response to perceptions regarding treatment effectiveness, its invasiveness, and its distracting abilities, than any mysterious physiological activity of acupuncture.

Before him, I thought euthanasia was the only option for cats with cancer, but to my great surprise this poor lovely cat is getting chemotherapy for an aggressive lymphoma of the kidneys.

Believe or not, there are a few places in the U.S. where one can obtain feline hemodialysis. My understanding is that this is generally part of a plan for transplant. (And you have to adopt the donor cat.)

This thread is already totally derailed, so may I suggest anyone interested in either cats or cancer check out Tuxedo Stanley? Before him, I thought euthanasia was the only option for cats with cancer, but to my great surprise this poor lovely cat is getting chemotherapy for an aggressive lymphoma of the kidneys.

Another really big surprise to me (how out of touch can one get??), from the comments I gather that some people think marijuana can cure cancer?? Trying to imagine a cat smoking a joint……..

Do check him out – Tuxedo Stan is much nicer than “Count Stan”!

tuxedostan.com

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Tuxedo-Party/391884324181841?ref=ts&fref=ts

The facebook page has more info, and thousands more comments (!!) than the website.

@devoutcatalyst: yes! So cute!

Fueling your nightmares, I recently had my cervix needled multiple times!!!!11!!

But for an awesome, actual medical reason! (To inject some sort of numbing agent so that it could be pried open to facilitate placing fallopian tube inserts intended to prevent any more little anthropologists from occupying my uterus.)

@everyone else: The solution to cat allergies is to have a dog instead. *ducks…*

Good luck to the Magpies next time out. Me, I prefer the SA-NZ version to Oz Futbal, but that’s upbringing for you. It’s not as if I ever played either.

Janet — the difference with hairless cats is only that they’re easier to bathe. I am allergic to both cats and dogs (more violently to cats) and so I have a poodle. Her coat doesn’t shed, which helps control the allergens, but I am still careful to wash my hands every time I pet her, lest I get dog dander on my face. That said, there are researchers attempting to genetically engineer a truly hypoallergenic cat. This strikes me as a little silly, but hey, if they can get someone to pay the big bucks for such a cat, I guess it’s fair. Just seems like a waste of resources.

Narad — “”Treat a disease at the start of the season and it will be better at the end of the season when all the pollen is gone.” Try telling that to the cats.” Well, strictly speaking, cat allergy isn’t seasonal allergic rhinitis, since it is *not* seasonal. So that experience wouldn’t apply to this study, although if you just get a bunch of people with allergic rhinitis and treat ‘em all with whatever hokum strikes your fancy, enough probably will have seasonal allergies to make a statistical difference. And if you’ve taken pains to find out what they’re all allergic to, you’ll notice that only the seasonal ones had an improvement, and then you’ll trumpet your study as proving that the hokum is good for seasonal allergic rhinitis. Voila!