Chris’ interpretation is correct. I didn’t say that he had been treated by a chiropractor. I said “apparently” and meant that if chiropractic were all it’s cracked up to be, manipulation could presumably have restored him to normal function..

Dr. Hall can correct me if I’m wrong.

Dear Guest,

As of June 7th, 2012 – Dr. Stiles has reinjured his shoulder (torn rotator cuff) and is unable to continue adjusting at this time. The physically demanding aspect of adjusting has aggravated and worsened the injury.

Where do you get the bit about failed treatment from another chiropractor ?

Why did the chiropractic associations not speak out and call for him to be prosecuted for his criminal forgery?

Too bad the “Doctors” didn’t read this (especially the last bit) to the patients before injecting.

They were practicing scientifically proved medicine weren’t they?
They probably even said something like ” Oh,let’s try this,
it might help you”.

By and large, if you perform any of your treatments incorrectly, your client would never know the difference, because most likely they will not improve except slowly over the natural course of whatever is causing their pain (unless of course you are doing cervical spine manipulations, in which case you should be put in jail.) If I make an equivalent mistake, people can die. Medicine is hard, and it’s based around taking calculated risks to save lives.

To answer your question, in my years yes I have made mistakes, and anyone who says differently is lying. I have never permanently harmed anyone (knock on wood.) The difference between you and me is that I was treating someone with scientifically proven medicine for legitimate disorders that, in some cases, would have killed them within several weeks if not hospitalized. You, on the other hand, are treating people with ineffective and/or disproven methodologies for disorders that, while sometimes debilitating, are not life threatening and are more often than not self-limited and would improve without your quackery.

How much do you pay a year for malpractice SH ?

I don’t suppose you’ve ever harmed anyone though.

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/Woman+injured+chiropractor+gets+millions+settlement/7346971/story.html

“I think we need to convince physicians to burn incense in their offices, serve waiting patients herbal teas with a twist of lemon and shake caduceus-inscribed marimbas while repeating incantations in a vaguely disturbing monotone.”

Your comment about shaking a caduceus-inscribed MARIMBA is rather funny….a Marimba is a rather large version of xylophone which weighs approximately 75 pounds and would be interesting to see someone shake…

Anyway, all the comments about quackopractors is rather a shame. Have any of you been to a chiropractor? I had been plagued with a constant low-level dizziness/vertigo for over 20 years and it had gotten to a point that I could not drive, work, or do anything other than sit like a lump in my chair. I had been to all the “normal” medical specialists you could possibly imagine all over the country and all I got was “we don’t know what’s wrong – here take this drug and let me know if it works” and nothing ever did. After going to a chiropractor, she adjusted me many times – OH, NO! with neck manipulation – and was able to make the spinning stop! And it hasn’t returned! Many professional athletes – football, basketball, tennis, golf, etc., get chiropractic adjustments. If it wasn’t doing any good, would they still go?

And as others have said, if the vertebral artery has an inherent weakness, then couldn’t anything that twists the neck at an unusual angle such as looking up or to the side do this too? It seems to me that if the medical community stuck with only so-called safe and proven ideas and theories, then we wouldn’t move forward. What about all the drugs that have been scientifically studied yet have shown horrendous side-effects, even death, that have been accepted and people don’t think twice about taking because “my doctor said I could”. Common sense, logic and intitution will usually be appropriate guidance for most everyone. If you don’t want your body “adjusted” don’t go! But don’t damn them because you don’t believe in them. This is still a free country!

“ADJUSTING!?!?!?!?!?!?! ARGH! *MELTDOWN* WHAT ARE YOU ADJUSTING!?!?’

Adjusting, manipulation, mobilization are all pretty much the same thing. What am I adjusting….hypomobile joints.

“I always find it *so* interesting how our resident chiropractors will chime in for certain things, but when asked a certain string of questions always just disappear. But then they’ll creep back to the forum with the same username, only to disappear again when asked a similar line of questioning. It’s always half-truths, no-truths, and obfuscation. The complete opposite of both medicine and science. Hope you’re all de-licensed.”

Was this directed at me? I have answered all of your questions and you had no wothwhile response. Sorry if not in a timely fashion as I do have a life outside of SBM!

You simply cannot expect to change deeply entrenched beliefs overnight, especially while they are being constantly reinforced within their native tribal environment, and also by compelling patient responses. The evidence can sometimes be a little murky, also.

Even frankly silly beliefs may thus have to be chipped away at over a very long time, and they may never be dislodged in our lifetimes. The question is: “Do insults help?”

No ibuprofen doesn’t save lives, and neither does neck manipulation. I don’t know why you even raise the question.

Ibuprofen has been shown effective in relieving pain and inflammation, reducing fevers, and in other uses like treating patent ductus arteriosus. Its mechanism of action is known. The efficacy of neck manipulation has not been established for any indication.

Ibuprofen was approved by the FDA after the usual phase I, II and III trials, and post-marketing studies have confirmed its efficacy and safety to the point that it was approved for OTC sale. You can’t seriously compare the amount and quality of evidence for ibuprofen to that for manipulation.

The real point is the balance between risks and benefits. Ibuprofen is the safest of all the NSAIDs. It is sold with a package insert containing appropriate warnings. It would be safest to never use any treatment that might cause serious side effects, but a lot of people are willing to take the small risk of ibuprofen side effects to get the benefits it offers. Attitudes towards risk vary. If patients are informed that there is a small risk of stroke and no good evidence of efficacy for neck manipulation, they might still choose to try it. But those who offer it with false assurances of effectiveness and safety are unethical.

That is an interesting point. Given the risks of ibuprofen, and I doubt it saves lives, couldn’t the same argument be made? Or does it save lives? This is not a que quo what ever, just a simple question.

And yes SH, I have been monitoring your transmissions.