“I wasnt certain at the time if it was their lifestyle or the herbalists’ skills that made a difference, but it gave me an idea which disorders plaguing the western world are primarily a result of modern nutrition and pharmaceutical abuse, and the areas where naturopathic treatment can have the most impact”

A classic example of an ignorant and opportunistic fool pulling ideas out of his nether regions for fast bucks.

Money for nothing and my $#|t for free.
Money for nothing and my $#|t for free.
Money for nothing and my $#|t for free.

It could be equally argued that it was irrational of you, WLU and others to respond in the first place. No one comments here without having an axe to grind and the expectation that they will be able to hold their ground (in their opinion) in any subsequent debate. So I ask, when have you ever seen anyone abandon a firm opinion about CAM (either way) as the result of a few days’ exchange on the Internet? It just doesn’t happen.

So I have few expectations, but my own limited objectives.

FBA:This is a very disturbing view of the world – that retired folks are nothing but unproductive moochers on healthcare costs. You can be old and healthy and productive. Preventative care doesnt just affect retired people, but also working-age adults and children.

Oh, agreed. The point is that naturopaths cannot avoid the political, economic and practical constraints that prevent doctors from performing as well as they might in an ideal world. It is a matter of fact that few practitioners can have much influence on lifestyles during the most formative years, especially against peer groups and family.

In a free country we also have limited ability to restrict access to those great tasting foods and drinks that provide unneeded and “empty” calories. I live in an area of very high obesity rates and I would set my observations of how my countrymen fill their shopping trollies up and spend most of their time against your interpretations of what you observed during your Asian visit. This is minimally judgmental — poor diet and little exercise are facts of modern life. Your references to primitive and historical populations have little or no relevance.

And in the long run it comes down to what is shown to work — that is, precisely which factors serve to prevent or treat obesity. Theorising can only get us so far.

Could the abstinence from running while he toenail surgery healed have givinen enough rest to relieve the back pain?

I have experienced relief of back pain when treated for other infections with antibiotics. So this begets the question, what is it, the killing off of bacteria or the anti-inflammatory effects of antibiotics in general?

Oh how I share your concern about this. And it isn’t just nurses. There are plenty of MDs who walk with them hand-in-hand. I have no statistics to demonstrate this but I suspect that science based medicine is losing ground.

The “us vs them” mentality of you and your religious cultists is sickening.
Newsflash.. there is no “jihad” between conventional and alternative medical practitioners.

We happily work together in real clinical practice. I work with MDs, radiologists, pathologists, and refer patients to them and MDs refer patients to me. Nobody is losing and Integrative Medicine is winning.

It is also not clear that preventive health care does “pay for itself” in the long run, and as any general rule (vaccinations are a probable exception). Those whose cardiac events are prevented will go on to get other illnesses and require expensive aged care and pensions. For governments the most cost-effective option is a sudden fatal heart attack at about retirement age, when the ability to pay tax lessens.

This is a very disturbing view of the world – that retired folks are nothing but unproductive moochers on healthcare costs. You can be old and healthy and productive. Preventative care doesnt just affect retired people, but also working-age adults and children.

My interest in natural medicine started when in younger days I was mountaineering with an anthropologist in countries of south east asia. The rural areas we visited had no access to pharmaceuticals, electricity or imported food. They lived off the land and used native plants for medical remedies administered by the village herbalist. In these villages, I havent found a single case of obesity, or autoimmune disorder, not one case of allergy or asthma. There were sick people, but certain western health disorders were completely absent.

I wasnt certain at the time if it was their lifestyle or the herbalists’ skills that made a difference, but it gave me an idea which disorders plaguing the western world are primarily a result of modern nutrition and pharmaceutical abuse, and the areas where naturopathic treatment can have the most impact.

Obesity is one such disease. It’s an entirely manufactured disease, designed by dieticians and food chemists who concocted the toxic products lining up the shelves of supermarkets, full of transfat, refined sugar and no nutrients. The same dieticians and chemists who poisoned their victims from childhood, then turned to blame the victim – you are just eating too many calories you lazy slob, eat less! Thyroid problem, what are you taking for it, chocolate cakes?! Tv Shows popped up like “The Biggest Loser”, a sadistic race to starve and fatigue the obese patient in the fastest possible time, sending a clear message to the viewer – if you want to get healthy, its going to be painful and its going to be exhausting.

I found this quote interesting:
“Chiropractors can’t have it both ways: chiropractors can’t claim to be unique amongst the manual therapists because of their techniques, yet claim any evidence for their particular ‘art’ from the studies that were not about chiropractic manipulations. The GCC has made this perfectly clear.”

I think as time drags on, the uniqueness will disappear and we’ll be mainstream therapists but for another name (hopefully). I don’t hold my breath though. I was in a chiropractic group the other day and they were banging on about philosophy, and the question was: “what’s the difference between a manipulation by a physio or doctor and an adjustment by a chiropractor? The intent.” Gimme a break.

Sure is amusing to see Pete playing devil’s advocate for the other side though, isn’t it?

As I’ve argued before, even if homeopaths in years past noted that certain people gained weight more than others, I would wager a pretty penny that they didn’t attribute it to bacteria, nor did they attempt to treat obesity with yogurt.

Peter, you waste your time and energy with that meatloaf.

“now that mass spectrometry technology has emerged”

What a guffaw. Mass spectrometry was in widespread use when I was an undergrad in the early 70s.

“we are discovering microbiological evidence for what natural healers knew for 1000 years.”

Yeah, I’ll bet there are hundreds of homeopaths burning the midnight oil running experiments on GCs and MSs.

why bother with a certificate? make one up. . .

I thought the video was satire. Apparently I was wrong. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry.

“Actually, they are motivated by the trend of “all the best places are offering it now”; ergo, “there must be something to it”.

Oh how I share your concern about this. And it isn’t just nurses. There are plenty of MDs who walk with them hand-in-hand. I have no statistics to demonstrate this but I suspect that science based medicine is losing ground. We haven’t heard from nygbrus for a while. I’d love to hear his thoughts on the prevalence of woo in his cohort.

Actually, they are motivated by the trend of “all the best places are offering it now”; ergo, “there must be something to it”. They felt it was “rude” of me to refer to all this as so much quackery. The worst thing was that I had to back off, bite my tongue (it’s still bleeding), and pretend to be a shruggie because they were PAYING guests (reviews are everything on the WWW).

I bet I could double the rates if I could find the time to get that Reiki Master certificate, add some incense pots, strew around a few copies of “Natural News”, and offer super-organic-all natural vitamins in place of the bowl of fruit. And “free consultation” coupons to the local whack ‘em hard/whack ‘em once, of course.

I know I’ve written this before, but I DESPAIR. (I do think I will print out the new e-books, though and leave those somewhere discreet–like on the toilet lid or the pillow).

I see you are still the resident expert on Nitric Oxide.

Are you still confident on its importance to human health? Weren’t you trying to get a product to market?

On Topic: I have some body builder friends who have tried Jack3d once, said it is seriously powerful stuff and that they would never use it again.

No. It had very little to do with ‘chiropractic’, and the UK General Chiropractic Council, who commissioned the review, were caught out by it. See:
http://www.zenosblog.com/2010/11/where-the-evidence-leads/

For a quick summary, see here
http://edzardernst.com/2012/11/the-risk-of-neck-manipulation/#comment-1368