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120 thoughts on “Protect Yourself

  1. Chris says:

    Well, weing, consider her brain droppings to be light comedy relief from her home planet, Htrae. Also known as Bizarro World.

  2. weing says:

    It’s a she?

  3. The Dave says:

    TH:
    “Naturally acquired immunity occurs through contact with a disease causing agent, when the contact was not deliberate, whereas artificially acquired immunity develops only through deliberate actions such as vaccination[...]Naturally acquired active immunity occurs when a person is exposed to a live pathogen, and develops a primary immune response, which leads to immunological memory.[7] This type of immunity is “natural” because it is not induced by deliberate exposure.”

    And, as far as I understand it, that is usually accompanied by acquiring the disease, and then afterward, if you survive, do you have the naturally acquired immunity. I would still prefer to avoid the disease altogether but those pesky “artificially acquired immunities.” At least I’ll still be alive and not permanently debilitated.

  4. Chris says:

    weing, yeah, its a “she” Apparently she is so nutty she got banned the the Mothering Commune. Which is notorious for supporting anti-vax ideas.

    The Dave, don’t bother with Thingy. She is impervious to reality, just go check the link I posted on 22 Sep 2012 at 1:57 pm. Just ignore her.

  5. Th1Th2 says:

    weing, yeah, its a “she” Apparently she is so nutty she got banned the the Mothering Commune. Which is notorious for supporting anti-vax ideas.

    So you’re not going to tell how notorious MDC is for actively promoting chicken pox parties?

    You know birds of the same feather flock together.

  6. Jan Willem Nienhuys says:

    Thingy:

    A disease-causing organism can be the whole pathogen or its virulence factors.

    A part of an organism is not an organism. Otherwise you could call deepfried squid rings also ‘organisms’. Then eating them could be called ‘invasion of the host organism’. If you eat a poisonous mushroom, then you get sick or worse, but you don’t call that an infection. The poison doesn’t multiply by itself. I think a doctor of infectious diseases can be trusted to know what an infection is, don’t you think so?

    Moreover, from what I gather from Wikipedia, a virulence factor is something excreted by bacteria (not viruses) that contribute to making you sick. Vaccines contain little parts of the surfaces of bacteria or viruses that can serve to recognize them.

  7. Jan Willem Nienhuys says:

    I mentioned dumb ass reason 15 (“Vaccination is unnatural”) but now I have run across dumb ass reason number 16.

    16. It’s no use for HCWs to vaccinate, because visitors to hospitals and nursing homes can also transmit the infection.

    Apart from the curious morality (“why should I be careful with lives of others, people die of so many things”) it is an innumerate form of dumb ass reason. HCWs have many more contacts with elderly and weak people than average persons, and as the probability of contagion is proportional to the time spent with susceptible people so the probability that they will tramsmit a potentially lethal infection is much higher.

  8. Th1Th2 says:

    A part of an organism is not an organism. Otherwise you could call deepfried squid rings also ‘organisms’. Then eating them could be called ‘invasion of the host organism’.

    Is that another metaphor? OK so what made you think squid rings were pathogenic? If you would inject yourself with tetanospasmin in the absence of the bacteria, would you develop tetanus?

    If you eat a poisonous mushroom, then you get sick or worse, but you don’t call that an infection. The poison doesn’t multiply by itself. I think a doctor of infectious diseases can be trusted to know what an infection is, don’t you think so?

    Again, what makes a poisonous mushroom pathogenic? I think you are barking up the wrong tree.

    Moreover, from what I gather from Wikipedia, a virulence factor is something excreted by bacteria (not viruses) that contribute to making you sick. Vaccines contain little parts of the surfaces of bacteria or viruses that can serve to recognize them.

    What a shame.

    Virulence factors are molecules expressed and secreted by pathogens (bacteria, viruses, fungi and protozoa) that enable them to achieve the following:

  9. WilliamLawrenceUtridge says:

    As a wise man once said, the lesser of two evils is still evil.

    However only an idiot sees vaccination as evil, making this yet another pointless comment.

    So you’re not going to tell how notorious MDC is for actively promoting chicken pox parties?

    We’ve told you lots of things, and in each case you twist it, manipulate it, torture it and misrepresnt it into something that fits your pre-existing agenda. Your posts are content-free, yet somehow packed with lies. I honestly hope you and your genetic line are unvaccinated so you can catch measles and go sterile. Sadly, the consequences of your convictions are more likely to affect other people. Hope you feel good about contributing to the death of immune-compromised cancer patients.

    I’m done pretending you’ve got anything to contribute to this conversation.

  10. Jan Willem Nienhuys says:

    Thingy writes

    A disease-causing organism can be the whole pathogen or its virulence factors.

    she reads this as if the word organism means ‘entity’. But an organism is not just anything but it means a single thing that lives and that in principle can multiply itself. A virus can multiply even though it doens not really live in the sense that it can grow or maintain itself.

    So a virus is an organism, Thingy is an organism, a mushroom and an squid are organisms. But Thingy’s nail clippings or Thingy’s brain are just part of Thingy, and not organisms. The poison inside a mushroom is not an organism. The poison secreted by a tetanus bacterium is not an organism and squid rings (fried or not) are not organisms.

    If we read in the quoted sentence the word organism as entity then we get something like

    Something that makes you sick is either a whole sickmaking thing, or a part of a sick making thing that contributes to making you sick

    That is a kind of tautology.

    Thingy seems to try to get the point across that the parts of the influenza virus that are instrumental in making you sick are the same parts that (a) are present in the vaccine and (b) are used by the immune system to recognize the virus.

    But the influenza virus kills the host cells because it proliferates in them, and the sickness symptoms are caused by cytokines produced by infected cells. The surface parts in the vaccine do not infect cells, do not proliferate in cells, and a fortiori do not kill cells by proliferating in them and provoke the release of cytokines. Whatever reaction they cause from the immune system that recognizes them is quite different from what the living and multiplying virus does. (If this is not correct I hope a real expert in infectious diseases will correct me.) Of course when you throw all kinds of discomfort into one bag you might think the slight discomfort from the vaccination is just a little bit from the large amout of the actual disease, but then you should abstain from pompous words like pathogen, organism and virulence factor.

    Some kind of vaccines contain live virus, and the mother of all vaccines, the cowpox vaccine certainly was alive and capable of creating those blisters the older people us among will have scars of. But not the stuff that Dr. Mark Crislip talked about.

    Meanwhile I have discovered another dumb reason (somewhat in the line of number 14):

    17. Viruses such as hiv and influenza and of childrens’ diseases – which are harmless anyway – don’t exist at all.

    The guy who told me this was suffering from the Dunning-Kruger effect. He thought it was a very high quality argument.

  11. Th1Th2 says:

    But the influenza virus kills the host cells because it proliferates in them, and the sickness symptoms are caused by cytokines produced by infected cells. The surface parts in the vaccine do not infect cells, do not proliferate in cells, and a fortiori do not kill cells by proliferating in them and provoke the release of cytokines. Whatever reaction they cause from the immune system that recognizes them is quite different from what the living and multiplying virus does. (If this is not correct I hope a real expert in infectious diseases will correct me.)

    Wrong. ALL vaccines inherently contain pathogen-asssociated molecular patterns and are necessary to trigger an infectious process regardless whether the vaccine is replicating or otherwise. Vaccines are designed to kill the host cells (proapoptopic) in order to induce inflammation and therefore promote immunogenicity. The use of killed influenzae virus is a limitation of the vaccine to cause transmissible infection however it is also poorly immunogenic compared to LAIV.

    I’m sorry but vaccines MUST kill the host cells to be “effective”.

  12. Jan Willem Nienhuys says:

    Thingy:

    vaccines MUST kill the host cells

    I think this is rubbish. The reason is that a vaccine contains only pieces of virus. They are dead. They cannot enter a cell, let alone proliferate (remember, they are dead), hence there is no host cell. I rest my case. At least I have made clear what Thingy thinks, but I leave it to others who know more about the subject matter to clarify this.

  13. weing says:

    I think it is misunderstanding PAMPs. Notice also, that to it, host cells = host.

  14. lilady says:

    I thought Dr. Gorski was going to put Thingy on a short leash.

    Still barking up the wrong squirrel, Thingy? Woof woof, grrrrrrr… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNwOIhJ1CAg&feature=related

  15. windriven says:

    Please. Pretty please. Pretty please with cherries and whipped cream on top!

    STOP engaging with The Thing. It wastes your time and it encourages her. Ignore her as you would a dog begging at the table.

    Repeat after me: ignorance can be fixed but stupid runs right to the bone.

  16. Guy says:

    I will be asking “Are you vaccinated?” to all health care professionals who offer me advice from now on. One question to see if they follow science based medicine. Brilliant.

  17. Harriet Hall says:

    Here’s an innovative way to encourage flu shots: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5rEoBnlncE&sns=tw

  18. karyn says:

    Th1 Th2, why are you using Wikipedia as a reference/citation? That doesn’t give you any credibility at all.

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