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331 thoughts on “Scaremongering to Sell Water Filters

  1. The Dave says:

    Your ignorance is blindingly painful to read. We have never said we are trying to take away anyone’s freedom of speech. We have simply requested that you stop ranting and raving in this forum concerning things you know nothing about. We have attempted, time and time again, to show you the error of your thought processes, and yet you are either unwilling, or unable to understand and learn what we are saying. Instead, you dodge direct questions, change the subject, make wild allegations against all of us, etc.

    Imagine what would happen if one of the atheists in this conversation were to go to a Catholic blog/forum and start making rambling, semi-incoherent, wildly inaccurate statements about the Catholic Church (its organization, its doctrine, etc.) Now imagine that atheist responded and continued on as incessantly as you have on this thread. Do you really think the other commenters would put up with it for very long, or would they (like we have to you) request that he either listen to what they are saying and understand where he has incorrect information, or stop commenting and leave the discussion. Would that also be trying to take away someone’s freedom of speech?

    (perhaps for clarification, lets specify that the crux of the hypothetical atheist’s argument is that he thinks that the Pope sacrifices babies, or some other nonsense, and the believers on the comment thread repeatedly try to explain that the Pope, does not, in fact, sacrifice babies, but the hypothetical atheist still clings to his unfounded belief. In that situation, should the Catholics continue to put up with his nonsense, or should they “take away his freedom of speech” and request that he stops commenting and leave. Notice how in neither your case nor the hypothetical atheist’s case have either been blocked and banned from the forum, the members simply ask that they stop talking about things they nothing about).

  2. Amalthea says:

    “you have your science, and I have mine”, Rusty says.
    That sounds like my mother sending me an e-mail including the line “Logic doesn’t matter.”

  3. The Dave..I understood very well, and was addressing cloudskimmer in his/her post, and what he/she was getting at.

    Not you regarding ‘freedom of speech’, but what freedom is, period.

    And, I gave a link reference to http://www.consumerhealth.org/articles/display.cfm?ID=19990303222823

    Dr. Yiamouyiannis who received his Ph.D. in biochemistry from the University of Rhode Island and served his post-doctoral fellowship at the Western Reserve University School of Medicine. He then became editor at Chemical Abstracts Service, the world’s largest chemical information center, where he first became aware of the health damaging effects of fluoride. He is the former science director of the National Health Federation; he is the executive director of Health Action and president of the Safe Water Foundation. He is a world-leading authority on the biological effects of fluoride and is responsible for ending the use of fluoride in many areas of the United States and abroad.

    and what his findings were on Fluoride. If you don’t think he’s qualified then that’s your opinion, not mine.

  4. Chris says:

    Copied from Amalthea because I just skip over RH’s screeds:

    “you have your science, and I have mine”, Rusty says.

    It sounds like stuff I used to say when I was six to eight years old. Fortunately I have actually learned much more since then.

  5. weing says:

    “He is a world-leading authority on the biological effects of fluoride and is responsible for ending the use of fluoride in many areas of the United States and abroad.”

    He’s been dead for the past 12 years. Used alternative treatments for colorectal cancer.

  6. ((Though “public health officials” regarded him as a terrorist))…well wow that’s interesting, ..does it mean, anyone who disagrees with the ‘state’s ideas are, and what they tell us is “health” and “science”, is a ‘terrorist’? or just one who speaks their ideas..contrary to the ‘state’s teaching/idea of what health and science is?

    and does that mean that the ‘state’, whoever’s in control that is, can now declare anyone a ‘terrorist’ who is against their idea, teaching, of what they want the public to know and believe. I would have thought that died out after WWII, in the free world anyway. interesting WLU coming from you particularly.

  7. Narad says:

    Not you regarding ‘freedom of speech’, but what freedom is, period.

    You fail to understand the distinction between freedom and liberty. Worse, you don’t even seem to have bothered to try to understand why it exists in the first place.

  8. :) the bottom line is…forcing anything on anyone against their will is Tyranny…it doesn’t matter whether you’re right or wrong, scientific or unscientific. Forcing fluoride on everyone against their knowledge and will is Tyranny. It’s Water..not a dental treatment..no matter what you or anyone else would like it to be..and it’s Tyranny to force others to have what You say is good for them..against their will. I do know you all need to learn that..sooner rather than later.

  9. I should say “You or the State”, especially the State

  10. The Dave says:

    Rusty:

    If you did in fact understand me well, I would be interested in hearing your opinion of the hypothetical situation I presented as an example. What should the Catholics’ response be to my hypothetical atheist? Or do you refuse to look introspectively and challenge your preconceived notions and biases? How would they have reacted differently than we have?

  11. Narad says:

    the bottom line is…forcing anything on anyone against their will is Tyranny…

    Perhaps your time would be better spent marching up and down in front of the Post Office wearing a sandwich board in protest, if this is the level of your ideation.

  12. Dave, I understand the catholics response would be “what are you doing here if you don’t like our beliefs”? And, I wouldn’t even be here if it were simply that…you have your beliefs, and I have mine. (You have your science, and I have mine) The difference here is…you ARE forcing your beliefs (science) on us all by putting fluoride in water. and, I’m addressing it, as one who is ‘disgusted’ at anyone being forced upon something unawares and unwanted. No one is forcing the atheist to be a catholic, or the catholics to be athiest, however, fluoride IS being forced on those unawares, and unwanted. I am not here (like the atheist) telling you you should believe what I believe..I am here to tell you to stop forcing on us all what you believe (regarding fluorides in water).

  13. Chris Repetsky says:

    The difference is, science is not a belief. Science is a method of utilizing experimentation and mathematical techniques to gather information.

    You are the one in this debate utilizing a belief system. You believe fluoride is unsafe, yet you fail to show any solid reasoning to back up that claim. When commenters here explain to you why your reasoning is unsound, you just ignore them and keep hopping to the next argument.

    You can’t say that Dave has his science and you have yours. There’s things that have been shown utilizing the scientific method, and things that haven’t.

    Honestly, I think people would at least respect you around here if you were humble enough to just say “Yes, I know the overwhelming body of collected knowledge in the past years has shown fluoride to be perfectly safe and beneficial. Yes, I understand I have no evidence to support my claim that it is somehow bad, however I still don’t like it.”

    At least then you would be admitting you’re just following a personal belief system instead of trying to make up claims about fluoride that just aren’t true.

  14. @rustichealthy:

    you ARE forcing your beliefs (science) on us all by putting fluoride in water.

    This claim is so ridiculous I am at loss for words. You have beliefs. We don’t. Well, we do, but they’re not related to science. And we’re not forcing anyone to accept science. The vast majority of commenters here, with the exception of cranks like you, see the value of science in and as itself. Nor are we putting fluoride in anyone’s water (unless someone here has any sway in public policy).

    So yes, RH, “what are you doing here if you don’t like science as it is done and should be done”?

  15. and..one last thing..cloudskimmer: ((but overall it makes me very sad that there are people out there who cannot change their minds, and are unable to learn anything outside their own self-constructed paradigm))

    o, please..”don’t weep for me”…weep for yourself

    The level of hatred and paranoia in those posts are seriously destructive of social well-being. (what on earth are you talking about ‘social well-being?..I Don’t Want Fluoride Forced on me in My Water..does that hurt your *feelings*?

    ((I can only hope that she conducts her life away from this website in a more collegial manner, especially to those with different beliefs))??. (see my post to Dave) and know the difference between ‘belief’ and respect of it..and being tyrannized actually by Your Belief that we all should have fluoride in water because you say so.

    (( Overall, I really feel sorry for her, and for the corner she’s painted herself into, and I am sorry as well for the unpleasant level of discourse which really detracts from the overall high standards upheld here))….

    like when one wished my ovaries were cut out of me?, or I should be turned into compost, or without end called a ‘moron’, as WLU just did? or “greedy”, because I don’t want to fill someone else’s bank account and pay for their healthcare? *insensitive* to a rich girls sex life…etc etc etc? lol you haven’t been paying attention apparently..anyway..ending this (I think) good nite.

  16. and, Chris Repetsky..

    :) the bottom line is…forcing anything on anyone against their will is Tyranny…it doesn’t matter whether you’re right or wrong, scientific or unscientific. Forcing fluoride on everyone against their knowledge and will is Tyranny. It’s Water..not a dental treatment..no matter what you or anyone else would like it to be..and it’s Tyranny to force others to have what You say is good for them..against their will. I do know you all need to learn that..sooner rather than later.

  17. slaves, gladiators and feeding lions

  18. Quill says:

    Rusty announces that “I am here to tell you to stop forcing on us all what you believe” but then says “I do know you all need to learn that..sooner rather than later.”

    Aha! Tyranny! You’re forcing your undaunted fallacious opinions on us no matter what we choose to think or believe. You claim to know what everyone else needs to know, which is the self-made wisdom of your own opinions.

    Naturalistic tyrant!

    Country commissar!

    Baking soda bully!

    Vitamin-D-ictator!

    Organic oppressor!

    And other such accusations as can be dredged from a brandy-deficient brain.

  19. The Dave says:

    Rusty: “I understand the catholics response would be “what are you doing here if you don’t like our beliefs”?”

    FL: “So yes, RH, “what are you doing here if you don’t like science as it is done and should be done”?”

    Check and Mate! :)

  20. Moebius says:

    WLU,

    My point exactly!

    Other than crucifixition……

  21. WilliamLawrenceUtridge says:

    Moebius, my sincere apologies! I knew I had read it recently, I knew I had read it on this board but I didn’t know I’d read it on this post!

    It does speak to the tendentious repetition, but what do you expect when all you’re reading is the sound of empty thoughts echoing in an empty chamber.

  22. Narad says:

    And other such accusations as can be dredged from a brandy-deficient brain.

    Bearfoot Doctor [sic] springs to mind, but she probably wouldn’t get it.

  23. Quill says:

    Or if she did would consider it a title of great honor as it brings one in accord with the dirt in natural contrast to all those “conventionals” who insist on wearing shoes especially while going to the library.

  24. Chris Repetsky says:

    Tyranny: noun, plural tyr·an·nies. arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority.

    The inclusion of fluoride is not arbitrary, as we have solid scientific evidence that it is a beneficial move in terms of public health. If it was a random chemical we were dumping into water without testing, or one that had severe side effects or a terrible cost/benefit ratio, then your point would stand. But in this case, it does not.

    The other commenters here can correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the decision to fluoridate a water supply usually an issue that one’s community can vote on? If so, that further strengthens my point. You might not agree with the popular vote, but it stands. And in this case, stands with the backing of solid scientific reasoning.

  25. Chris Repetsky says:

    Tyranny: noun, plural tyr·an·nies. arbitrary or unrestrained exercise of power; despotic abuse of authority.

    The inclusion of fluoride is not arbitrary, as we have solid scientific evidence that it is a beneficial move in terms of public health. If it was a random chemical we were dumping into water without testing, or one that had severe side effects or a terrible cost/benefit ratio, then your point would stand. But in this case, it does not.

    The other commenters here can correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the decision to fluoridate a water supply usually an issue that one’s community can vote on? If so, that further strengthens my point, seeing as how that “authority” is not unrestrained. You might not agree with the popular vote, but it stands. And in this case, stands with the backing of solid scientific reasoning.

  26. Narad says:

    isn’t the decision to fluoridate a water supply usually an issue that one’s community can vote on?

    Well, yes, but it’s not always direct. In Paudano v. City of New York, one of the prongs came down to the ability of the city to grant plenary power to the Board of Health, so one would have to start at the top.

  27. Narad says:

    ^ Eesh, “Paduano.”

  28. Chris Repetsky says:

    Thanks for the link! Learned something today.

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