148 thoughts on “I Never Meta Analysis I Really Like

  1. ((If you try something and feel better for whatever reasons, you will attribute your improvement to the treatment and your attribution may be wrong. ))

    While this may certainly be true, it was not simply one time..or a’s been 4 years since my last problem with asthma…and within this time, not even a full out cold! that’s what makes me more convinced it’s not simply my mind talking myself into it. That again is why I started my site, and why I’m here..I wouldn’t even consider singing praises to vitamins/organic, if it wasn’t a period of time and experience of the same result happening over and over. See my One Hour Cold Melee…for the worst incident actually in 4 years:)..

    ((but in medicine we have to TEST, not just try things for ourselves.)) Exactly!..and I understand…the reason I suggest trying it is perhaps it will motivate you to looking more into it, to find or produce a test.

    Harriet and trrll..I know it would not ‘prove’ anything to anyone else, because that’s what I go through all the time! What I was hoping is, if you did try it yourself, and see if something works..let’s say any other kind of vitamin/nutrient also..not only Vit. C, but, if you saw something works yourself..a natural antibiotic (like cinnamon or coconut oil), or antifungal (like baking soda)…etc. (many references and links on my site homepage) then you’ll be more motivated to find or produce clinical tests to help support them also. And, it will then be more open and available in conventional medicine as well!

    The thing with who decides what tests are accepted or not, is, ok, really sorry, but, considering what is produced by conventional medicine, the results, creating more problems, I have a hard time understanding the acceptability of it at all. Basically, it’s the substance of what is used. Chemicals are accepted, known side-effects determined as a ‘risk/benefit’ ratio..according to their belief..or the pharma’s me is not acceptable. Just otc tylenol alone is causing liver damage. I understand you all may take it personal, but, I’m hoping you won’t.

    Regarding something like Quackwatch, explaining away the supposed psycho babble of ‘quackery’, just to cover every possible base of explanation or reasoning possible, to explain away whatever it is, that’s not known in conventional quackery..without even Scientifically actually testing/experimenting, and simply assuming it is quackery… is all very unscientific itself. imo :) anyway..I’d be repeating myself..really nice chatting (this time :)

  2. The Dave says:

    @Quill: Oh, of course… I completely forgot about the miasmas and the humors… :)

  3. Harriet Hall says:

    Countering anecdote with anecdote: I haven’t had a cold in several years. I try to eat a variety of foods, but I don’t avoid any of the things Rusty deplores, and I don’t take supplements.

  4. mousethatroared says:

    HH – clearly, I am getting all your allotment of colds. :)

  5. mousethatroared says:

    and Rusty’s too.

  6. The Dave..ok..but, whatever causes a cold..I haven’t had one. And, I know when I’m coming down with one, or whatever it is..sniffling, sneezing, coughing, wheezing, chills…I haven’t had one in 4 years…not for more than an hour that is. I don’t think I have to know exactly what does or doesn’t cause it to know it’s a cold. It is a virus, yet I haven’t had it in years..I’ve been around those with flu, and still haven’t had it. I’ve Felt like I’m coming down with one..but then I take an extra vitamin C, and some other natural remedies sometimes, and they don’t develop into anything more. It’s happened so many times over. Anyway…maybe try it for yourself next time you feel like you’re coming down with something. That’s all I can really say..have a nice day all.

  7. Harriet Hall says:

    You’re welcome to them! Happy to share!

  8. Robb says:

    Re: Colds and cold weather
    Just for fun, this study took a stab at this connection:
    Johnson C, Eccles R. Acute cooling of the feet and the onset of common cold symptoms. Fam Pract. 2005 Dec;22(6):608-13. Epub 2005 Nov 14.

    Could cold weather not have some connection in impairing nasal/respiratory defenses (drying out mucous membranes, impairing circulation, etc.)?

  9. Mark Crislip says:

    True story:

    Depsite being surrounded by infections, I have not had a cold in years, ever since I started wearing ECCO leather shoes. Everytime I think I am coming down with one in the morning, I put on the ECCO shoes and head off to work and I do not get a cold.

    The one exception was one weekend I came down with a cold and on weekends I wear Merrill walking shoes

    I am convinced of cause and effect. ECCO shoes prevent colds.

  10. jmb58 says:

    I want to anecdote share too.

    I never get sick. Haven’t missed a day of work in 6 years, even with 3 kids bringing home every virus. I eat healthy but take no effort to avoid inorganic or GMO food. Never take supplements or vitamins.

    I work 80 hours/week and compete as a competative cyclist.

    I don’t give my kids any vitamins or supplements. I do make them be active everyday. All are healthy.

    So there are plenty of anecdotes to counter every RH type anecdote. Guess we have to look to the data. All the data.

  11. The Dave says:

    And on the other hand, even when I eat organic, non-gmo (for no other reason than its in front of me) lately I seem to always be a little congested. Perhaps the organic food is doing it to me…

  12. mousethatroared says:

    Okay here’s my anecdote. I used to never get sick. If fact my husband still raves about how all the flus and colds passed me by. Now I get sick very often. As far as I can see, I get every cold or flu that my any of children or husband get, but sometimes worse (part of this is the kid/adult effect). I get a flu shot, (as I did then) and probably eat more healthy and exercise about the same as when I never got sick.

    Clearly, never getting sick ultimately leads to always getting sick.

    So, stop gloating, all you “healthy” people are next. :)

  13. UncleHoot says:

    @RusticHealthy, my wife has Hashimoto’s. She finds that she has to re-explain what it is every time she gets a new doctor. ;-) But aside from that, you mentioned eating kelp, and that you feel it helps. I’m just curious what else you might think helps? She is on medication (levoxyl) and does not plan to change that.

    You also mentioned fish oil. My mother told me to start taking fish oil tablets about 2 years ago. I was skeptical, so I decided to alternate taking fish oil and not taking fish oil.

    My personal experience with fish oil – 2 capsules per day – cholesterol tests at 6 month intervals.
    First test: Total 220, HDL 30 (no fish oil)
    Second test: Total 173, HDL 37 (with fish oil)
    Third test: Total 204, HDL 34 (no fish oil)
    Forth test: Total 170, HDL 39 (fish oil)

    My weight was fairly stable throughout, although my percent body fat has dropped about 4% since the initial test. One flaw in my “study” could be seasonal changes. June tests showing the best scores, and December tests showing the worst. I’m currently still taking fish oil, however, and my next test is in December.

    (I’m new here, so please be kind and simply point me to the proper forum guidelines if I misbehave.)

  14. Chris says:

    Well I now very seldom get colds because I am old enough to have gone through most of the over 200 virus strains! Between traveling as a kid enough to attend nine separate school districts and dealing with all of the crud that three kids dragged in from school, I may have resistance to almost every variation.

  15. BillyJoe says:

    Another anecdote appropos of nothing:

    Whilst running I have hardly ever had a cold but, three months ago, I developed tendonitis and had to change to cycling to stay fit. Ever since I’ve had cold after cold after cold, though fortunately not severe. I think it’s the air rushing past my face on those steep downhill runs. What else could it be? I’ve heard fans on in a room at night do the same thing, so I guess it has to be that.

  16. Chris says:

    Oh, no! BillyJoe, doncha know that running a fan at night can cause death!? ;-)

  17. mousethatroared says:

    BillyJoe – I always heard that conditions (airplane cabin, winter home heating, etc) that dry out your nasal passage can cause cracks that lower your defenses to viruses. Not sure if that’s true or not.

  18. I’ve never been sick, ever. I only eat McDonalds. I weigh 135 and am 9 feet tall. I have perfect telomeres.

  19. BillyJoe says:


    I thought I’d take this opportunity to let you all know that my daughter had the ablation treatment for her 35,000 ectopics per day, and that they have been reduced to zero.
    She can now go to sleep without having to worry about those kicks in her chest every two seconds.

  20. UncleHoot…thank you for that. This forum may not be the best place, but that sounds great regarding the results from fish oil!!.. perhaps other doctors here would like to comment on it. I’m not a doctor, but I do have a website with many other ideas and references for natural whole remedies and things like that.

    Regarding Hashimotos: I was diagnosed with hypothyroidism some years ago, but turned down the meds not seeing the need at the time, and to this day do not take any meds/hormones for it. I started taking Sea Kelp this year, also a thyroid complex, with iodine and selenium in it. I’ve lost weight since going organic and my hypothyroid symptoms have been mild more dry skin, brittle nails. I would suggest going organic for both you and your wife..but, I would say to your wife to consult with her doctor first however, regarding any nutrients including kelp to be sure it doesn’t interfere with any medications. I’m sorry I don’t have experience in that.

  21. mousethatroared says:

    BillyJoe – Good News!

  22. David Gorski says:

    (I’m new here, so please be kind and simply point me to the proper forum guidelines if I misbehave.)

    We don’t mind pseudonyms, but no sockpuppets. That’s an absolute rule that will get you booted instantly, ELloyd. (You didn’t really think I wouldn’t notice, did you?) I let you get away with it this one time because I feel sorry for you. You may continue to comment as long as you pick a pseudonym and stick with it. What this means is that you have to choose: Are you going to be posting as UncleHoot or ELloyd. Whichever one you choose, I will delete the other. I will also moderate all of your posts for a while until I’m satisfied that you’ve learned your lesson.

  23. UncleHoot says:

    You know what, David. I decided that I liked this blog, and I wanted to stay. I considered using my actual name and hoping that I would be allowed to start over, after such an unfortunate encounter. But I reconsidered, afraid that I would be immediately attacked, and ruin another blog. So I used my other pseudonym “UncleHoot”, who also raises chickens, plays poker, and enjoys playing the ocarina.

    I thought you may have noticed, but I believed (mistakenly) that you would let sleeping dogs lie. Now that I’ve been “outed” I suppose I have no reason to continue posting, as I will never be treated fairly. I certainly did not come here to cause trouble, and my messages were sincere.

  24. lilady says:

    @ Billy Joe:

    Great News! I’m sure her recovery period will be less complicated that my husbands. (The ONLY complicated part of his post-ablation recovery period, was figuring out how to hook up our telephone for the two-week constant EEG telephonic event monitor). :-)

    @ ELloyd/Uncle Hoot: Could you manage to not change your gender, as well?

  25. The Dave says:

    so, ELO + Pink Floyd, is UncleHoot a clever conjugation of 2 other of your favorite bands?

  26. UncleHoot says:

    Yep. I guess I have no future here. I’m sorry to everyone. I had hoped that I could be my true self here, but I see that’s not ever going to be possible now. I understand. It’s my fault.

    Goodbye for real.

  27. Dr. Gorski…I just read your credentials and job description..very nice, interesting…research in breast cancer. Have you looked into Vit. D and it’s effects. I understand it slows tumors…I appreciate you allowing me on here also..considering :)

  28. lilady says:

    D’oh…Billy Joe: My husband had a two-week constant EKG telephonic event monitor. :-)

  29. UncleHoot says:

    Since I see that my comments are still in moderation, I offer you the following option.

    Remove the ones where I agreed with your “outing” of me, and simply say something like, “Oops. I was wrong.” And perhaps lilady and others may actually believe it, assuming that they do not have the same access as you. I don’t know. I doubt it would work at this point.

    If you truly feel that I add nothing to these blogs, fine, I really will go away for ever. I’m trying to figure that out myself as well. But I am learning a lot here, and I do honestly enjoy the topics for discussion, so I had hoped to stay, without the immediate hostility that ELloyd or “Jeremy Praay” would be afforded.

    ELloyd was not me. Yes, it was me, but it was not me, if you know what I mean. I was angry. I’m not willing to forgive any of those who attacked me, but I had hoped that I could a least start over. My “if I misbehave” sentence was directed at you. I expected that you would spot me, and it was a wink and a nod to say that I’m not here to misbehave.

    Anyway, it’s up to you. I’m not sure this is worth my energy any longer.

  30. UncleHoot says:

    Who is ELloyd?

    I’m new here, and I’m trying to figure out what these forums are all about. I’m not a doctor, but I see a lot of them here. It sounds like RusticHealthy and I may share some common interests. If there are forum guidelines, please let me know.

    I don’t understand why you feel sorry for me, either. My wife has Hashimoto’s. Last I checked, I was pretty healthy. :-)

  31. UncleHoot says:

    Okay, then. I guess you opted for me to leave. That’s fair. I’m sorry. Goodbye.

  32. David Gorski says:

    When a sockpuppet is noticed I tend to out that person and reveal the sock puppet. Why? Because sockpuppets are not allowed. They cause nothing but disruption. In fact, in general with precious few exceptions, that is their very purpose.

    Quite frankly, I would suggest that you stop whining and decide either to try to become a regular commenter or to go away. Pick one or the other. If you decide to continue posting, as is the case with everyone else, how you post will determine whether you rehabilitate your reputation. If you are sincere, after a while the other commenters will probably tend to forget or overlook your original less-than-savory entry into the comments of this blog. You might have to eat some crow for a while and put up with snarky comments, but those will fade over time. If you are not sincere, it will become very obvious very fast, and, yes, other commenters will likely give you a hard time—and deservedly so.

    Your choice. Make up your mind.

    As for moderation, I have a demanding day job; so I do not check the comments in moderation every minute of every day as you seem to think that I should. Sometimes several hours will pass without my checking them.

  33. mousethatroared says:

    My old boss used to tell a story about the mathematical geniuses that he used to hang out with at MIT. Apparently, one would only talk through a sock puppet (real, not virtual). One of my creative co-workers first questions upon hearing this story was…”How did he talk on the phone?”

    To this day, I get a happy feeling whenever I hear the word “sock puppet”.

    okay – sorry, back to the medicine and science.

  34. UncleHoot says:

    LOL, so much for moderation! Well, if nothing else, people a free to judge my sincerity. The “Who is ELloyd” comment was provisional.

    I apologize for disrupting yet another blog, but I am curious about the answer to Rustic’s vitamin D question, so I’ll probably at least stick around for that.

    My final, final, final goodbye, I hope. (Yes, Dr. Hall, “Good riddance” to me and ELloyd. Sorry for your trouble.)

  35. mousethatroared says:

    UncleHoot – personally, I wouldn’t see a reason for you to change your name or leave. If you’re not a happy with the impression you made earlier (I wasn’t following that discussion) why don’t you just try to continue in a direction you feel better about and see what happens?

    Might not be as bad as you think.

  36. I agree with mousethatroars..I didn’t see any of it either.. UncleHoot, but, I don’t believe there’s reason to leave.

  37. BillyJoe says:

    Michele and Lilady,

    My daughter is 16. Apparently she has been having these ectopics for about three years without telling anyone. Not me, not her mother, and not any of her school friends. Yet it kept her awake at night! It was discovered when my other daughter got a new mobile phone which had a function that counts and sounds out your pulse. The sixteen year olds pulse rate was 48 bpm and the pulses were paired. The slow pulse rate turned out to be hereditary – my other daughter’s pulse rate is also about 50, and mine hovers around 45 (38 when I was running marathons). The paired beats consisted of one normal beat followed by an ectopic followed by a pause (because the ectopic comes in earlier than the normal pulse).

    BTW, the only monitoring she had was overnight in hospital, but she had to rest up completely for one week (which finishes today). She did complain of chest pain for a few days but this was apparently normal after this procedure in which the aberrant focus was ablated.

  38. lilady says:

    @ Billy Joe:

    Dear hubby was (quite) a bit older. February 2005, he was feeling awful, went to the GP and he was thought to have the flu and placed on an anti-viral. Two weeks after that he was feeling worse and upon his return to the doctor his EKG was quite irregular (atrial-flutter) and tachycardia at 150 bpm. He drove himself to the hospital ER, where I met him. His liver enzymes were quite elevated and he had ascites. I (really had to) insist that blood was drawn for a virology panel (Hepatitis A,B and C and CMV, EBV). He was diagnosed with acute onset EBV virus…practically unheard of, for anyone his age.

    He underwent a cardioversion after he had a TEEC (trans-esophageal echo cardiogram) to make certain he had no clots that would be dislodged when his heart was stopped and restarted. His heart rate returned to normal sinus rhythm and he was put on a beta blocker….not Betapace.

    A few months after that he again experienced A-flutter, and tachycardia and he underwent catheterization, trans-esophageal echo cardiogram and the following day underwent R. atrial cardiac ablation…without anesthesia, but with morphine drip. He says it burned like hell, every time the abnormal foci were ablated.

    September 2008, now in A-Fib, he underwent catheterization, TEEC and the following day left atrial ablation…under sedation. A small percentage of adults have incomplete closure of the foramen ovale, which can be used to access the left atrium from the right atrium; he didn’t and a small hole was opened up to gain access to the left atrium. He was then put on Betapace, which must be titrated in the hospital and heparin injections…which were stopped once Coumadin was in range. Both Betapace and Coumadin were withdrawn a few months later.

    He too, felt pain after both procedures, but he was sedated during the second procedure and didn’t feel the burning of the abnormal foci.

    The most *complicated part* of both procedures occurred weeks after the procedures. (Trying to hook up our telephone for the event EKG 2 week telephonic monitoring). :-)

  39. BillyJoe says:


    (Is that short for little lady?)

    That sounds very complicated! Your husband obviously had a lot more going on than my daughter. I’m glad her condition was a bit more straight forward. Coincidentally, my daughter was diagnosed with EBV earlier this year. When we picked up her abnormal pulse on the mobile phone, I did some googling and came to the conclusion that her EBV infection caused the rare complication of myocarditis which, in turn, caused the rare complication of ectopic beats. It all made sense – until she told me she’d had the problem for three years. That sort of blew my brilliant university of google assisted diagnosis out of the water.

    I’m still amazed she could have hidden this for three years. Except that I was quilty of this myself many years ago. I mentioned that, whilst running marathons, my resting pulse dropped to about 38. Well, at night, my pulse would actually drop low enough to go into what I now know is called a ventricular escape rhythm. So every night I would experience palpitations and, like my daughter, I never told anyone about it either. (I found that, if I trained a little harder, they would actually stop and, from this, I deduced, correctly as it turned out, that they were not harmful.)

  40. lilady says:

    @ Billy Joe:


    (Is that short for little lady?)

    My ‘nym *might be* short for little lady…a girl’s gotta have some secrets. :-)

    This is why I was quite insistent with the I.D. doctor that a virology panel be ordered, to rule out viral hepatitis, CMV and EBV (chronic, reactivated, or acute onset). I was also working as a public health nurse/epidemiologist, investigating/communicable infectious diseases at a County health department.

    “Primary Infection

    Primary EBV infection is indicated if IgM antibody to the viral capsid antigen is present and antibody to EBV nuclear antigen, or EBNA, is absent. A rising or high IgG antibody to the viral capsid antigen and negative antibody to EBNA after at least 4 weeks of illness is also strongly suggestive of primary infection. In addition, 80% of patients with active EBV infection produce antibody to early antigen.”

  41. BillyJoe says:

    “My ‘nym *might be* short for little lady…a girl’s gotta have some secrets. ”


    My daughter’s IgG was negative, and her IgM was positive, indicating a recent infection. She actually had a very mild case and was back at school within a week.

  42. Daniel Urbach says:

    Mark: “not unsurprisingly” means you’re surprised. Just my compulsive little comment.

  43. BillyJoe says:

    He could care less. ;)

  44. Lemons says:


    Angry PANDAS are attacking Boston Children’s Hospital. Look:

    The poster says:
    The National Institute of Health spent 17 years establishing PANDAS/PANS. Boston Children’s Hospital took only 17 seconds to erase it completely.

    The thread is a train wreck but it has its moments.

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