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CAM Docket: Functional Endocrinology Update

Sometimes the media gets it right.

From time to time, SBM has reported on the disheartening credulity of reporters when they cover so-called “alternative” medicine. Denver’s Channel 7, an ABC affiliate, is a happy exception to the rule. Reporter Theresa Marchetta first broke the story of Brandon and Heather Credeur, chiropractors practicing “Functional Endocrinology.” And for three years Marchetta, with the assistance of reporter Phil Tenser, followed up, interviewing hundreds of patients who lost thousands of dollars paid to the Functional Endocrinology Center of Colorado for treatment of their diabetes and other endocrine disorders. They’ve reported regularly as the Credeurs legal travails progressed through various judicial and administrative forums. Channel 7 and its reporters deserve substantial credit for pursing this story. The Credeurs might have escaped further censure without their persistence.

Another recurring frustration at SBM is medicine’s embrace of alternative medicine, expressed repeatedly at SBM in posts on quackademic medicine and the branding device known as integrative medicine. We’ve also lamented the seeming complicity of the state medical societies in allowing quackery to be legalized in the form of complementary and alternative medicine provider practice acts.

But sometimes medicine gets it right.

The Colorado Medical Board has somewhat redeemed itself in ordering Brandon and Health Credeur to cease and desist the unlicensed practice of medicine. That’s right. A medical board has finally put its collective foot down and pushed back against chiropractic’s increasingly aggressive push to practice medicine.

And sometimes SBM appears to be making inroads into the hostile incursion of alternative medicine.

I recently discovered that if you google “functional endocrinology”, first up on the list is CAM Docket: Functional Endocrinology, the very post updated today. Admittedly, it appears at the head of a depressingly long list of chiropractic websites advertising the practice, but at least we get a first crack at anyone who might be considering paying thousands of dollars and wasting time, and perhaps their health, on this useless nonsense.

A trifecta in the war on quackery! Revel in this victory, supporters of science-based medicine, for it is small and the victory may be fleeting. Let’s see how the battle is going.

In our last episode . . .

To summarize from the previous post, chiropractors Brandon and Health Credeur own Functional Endocrinology of Colorado. They attracted patients with free “gourmet dinners” and advertising, including a website, promoting their ability to treat diabetes with functional endocrinology. As is typical of alternative medicine pitches, their advertising offered a lot of MD-bashing and blather about getting to the “root cause” of diabetes, but little in the way of specifics and nothing in the way of actual evidence, only testimonials. Brandon Credeur claimed to be able to “reverse diabetes” in as little as three weeks. According to patients, actual treatments consisted of a diet book, supplements and chiropractic adjustments, for which they spent thousands of dollars. (One caller to the clinic was quoted a figure of more than $8,000 for treatments.) Some patients were not aware that the Credeurs were not MDs or endocrinologists.

Brandon Credeur also sold functional endocrinology practice building seminars, via a company called Functional Medicine Marketing, to other chiropractors. He bragged about hauling in hundreds of thousands of dollars per month and spoke of patients as if they were simply opportunities for self-enrichment.

The Colorado Board of Chiropractors filed a multi-count complaint against the Credeurs but wound up giving them only a slap on the wrist for errors in documentation. With a stipulation that they would improve on this, the Credeurs were back to shilling for their diabetes treatments. But some patients, outraged at the chiropractic board’s decision, banded together and filed a lawsuit against the Credeurs.

The battle continues

Channel 7 is still on the case. As it reported on June 13, 2013, the Medical Board of Colorado ordered the Credeurs to cease and desist the unlicensed practice of medicine. The Credeurs requested a full hearing on the matter, which they have a right to do under Colorado law. This meant that the Medical Board had to file a formal Notice of Charges fully setting forth its allegations of unlicensed practice and it did so on August 27, 2013. The Credeurs have not yet filed their Answer but a four-day hearing has been set for April 14, 2014.

The Medical Board is in interesting territory here. It does not have jurisdiction to discipline the Credeurs regarding their practice of chiropractic, including the suspension or revocation of their licenses. The Chiropractic Board has the exclusive authority to do that. It can only pursue them for practicing medicine without a license.

At the heart of the Medical Board’s allegations are the Credeurs’ statements on their website, which, according to the Board, suggest to the public that they

  • have an effective treatment or cure for endocrine dysfunction this is mutually exclusive to conventional medical endocrinology treatment by a licensed physician;
  • can permanently reduce and eliminate the risk factors of diabetes;
  • can eliminate low thyroid symptoms exclusively through chiropractic practice; and
  • can assume sole responsibility for treatment of patients regarding medications requiring a prescription by a physician without professional collaboration with or referral to a licensed physician.

(As to the last allegation, although this is not mentioned in the Notice of Charges, Channel 7 caught someone in the Credeurs’ office telling another person that “Synthroid promotes diabetes.”)

In addition, the Medical Board charges that the Credeurs’ website fails to indicate that they are chiropractors and that their services are exclusively chiropractic.

As examples of their alleged practice of medicine, the Notice of Charges quotes from the Credeur’s website. Here’s one example:

In functional endocrinology, the doctor identifies that function has been lost and asks a much more important question: Why has function been lost? And what can we do to restore function? In other words, the doctor looks to find the ROOT CAUSE or mechanism involved with any loss of function, which ultimately reveals why a set of symptoms is there in the first place, or why the patient has a particular disease label. . . . The point is the example and distinction made between the drug therapy model that is traditional medicine and a doctor who looks at mechanisms (i.e., contributing causes) and thus a doctor who practices within the model of “Functional Endocrinology.”

Ah yes, it’s that famous “root cause,” in CAPS, underlined, and boldfaced, in case you didn’t get the point. The website is still up and continues to make these claims.

The Chiropractic Board appears to agree with the Medical Board that chiropractors should not advise patients about their prescription medications and that they should confer with licensed physicians. The Chiropractic Board made similar charges in its complaint against the Credeurs, although the issue was never tried because of the parties’ stipulated settlement. And the Chiropractic Board agrees that it should be clear to patients that the practitioner is a chiropractor.

The two boards differ as to whether chiropractors can diagnose and treat endocrine dysfunction, diabetes and low thyroid. The Chiropractic Board went out of its way to reaffirm that treatment of endocrine system “ailments” is within the chiropractic scope of practice:

The Board affirms that the scope of chiropractic practice includes diagnoses and treatment of human ailments, including those affecting the endocrine system. [Credeur] and the Board expressly agree that it is appropriate for [him] to use the term “functional endocrinology” in his practice name and to describe his services provided that he continues to disclose his credentials “D.C.” when referring to himself as “doctor” to make clear that he is a chiropractor and that his services are provided pursuant to his chiropractic credentials.

(Emphasis added.)

Under Colorado law [Sec. 12-32-102(1.7), C.R.S.], the practice of chiropractic is premised on the subluxation, that is, the notion that “disease is attributable to the abnormal functioning of the human nervous system,” in the words of the Colorado chiropractic practice act. While chiropractic practice includes “diagnosing and analyzing of human ailments,” treatment is limited to “elimination of the abnormal functioning of the human nervous system by adjustment or manipulation” of joints. However, it also includes the use of “nutritional . . . remedial measures for the promotion, maintenance, and restoration of health, the prevention of disease, and the treatment of human ailments.” In addition, Colorado law gives chiropractors the authority to use venipuncture for diagnostic purposes.

The Chiropractic Board and the Credeurs appear to interpret a chiropractor’s legal authority to diagnose “human ailments” as unlimited by the fact that, in the chiropractic view of things, disease is attributable to the subluxation, even though that is how Colorado law specifically defines chiropractic practice. In essence, they ignore this limitation and interpret scope of their legal authority to diagnose to be the same as that of a medical doctor, although actual treatment is limited to dietary supplements and other “nutritional measures” and adjustments to eliminate subluxations.

Interestingly, while the Notice of Charges refers to diagnosis, its emphasis is on the fact that the Credeurs held themselves out as being qualified to treat, “exclusively through chiropractic practice,” diabetes, thyroid disorders, and endocrine dysfunction. Here, the board is on solid ground factually. There is no good evidence that functional endocrinology is effective for any condition or disease. However, whether that means they were engaged in the unlawful practice of medicine is not clear to me, although I am not familiar with Colorado law on the subject nor am I privy to what the Board’s strategy might be here.

Even if the Credeurs prevail, it is important that the Medical Board took action to protect the practice of medicine from further encroachment by chiropractors. If the Board can’t prove that the website representations constitute the practice of medicine, perhaps it will spur the state legislature to amend the chiropractic practice act to ensure that these and other diseases are out of the reach of chiropractors seeking to poach on medical territory.

As to their other legal troubles, Channel 7 reports that the Credeurs settled at least one class action complaint brought by former patients. The Credeurs filed for bankruptcy in August, listing assets of about one million dollars and liabilities of about three million. They report as a potential liability a lawsuit filed by patients, which they value at $100,000, and as a potential asset a possible suit against Channel 7 and other media for defamation and interference with contract.

The father of functional endocrinology?

One interesting tidbit in the bankruptcy documents is a description of a dispute between the Credeurs and a disgruntled former student at one of their Functional Medicine Marketing seminars. According to the student, the Functional Medicine Marketing system was, among other deficiencies, merely a rehash of a diabetes treatment plan developed by chiropractor Datis Kharrazian.

As it turns out, Datis Kharrazian is a San Diego chiropractor who appears to be the father of functional endocrinology. He’s written a book on the subject and runs seminars for chiropractors as well as other practitioners. He is also a Diplomate of the International Board of Applied Kinesiology and teaches at the Carrick Institute, if that tells you anything.

Here’s a description a functional endocrinology course available from Kharrazian.

Functional Endocrinology, 16 hours

This seminar teaches health care practitioners how to support hormonal balance by analyzing salivary and serum testing, then applying the appropriate nutritional support.

So that’s how you do it!

For a more critical look at Kharrazian than his website offers, he is featured on the website “Science Questions with Surprising Answers” as a case study under the topic, “How can I tell if a doctor is a quack?” Guess what the conclusion is.

Brandon Credeur’s pupil

The previous post on functional endocrinology also featured one of Brandon Credeur’s seminar students and fellow Parker College of Chiropractic classmate, Brandon Babcock, of Utah. Like his teacher, Babcock claimed the ability to “reverse” diabetes with functional endocrinology and had patients paying thousands of dollars for his services. He, too, drew patients in with free “gourmet dinners” and, according to patients, failed to tell them he is a chiropractor. As an additional flourish, Babcock allegedly engaged in a financial scheme to defraud patients, which earned him an 11-count felony charge. According to the court clerk’s office (as of Tuesday), that case goes to trial tomorrow. The city of West Jordan, Utah, revoked his business license due to the pending charges. Per an emergency order, his license to practice was temporarily suspended pending a further hearing but, according to state records, the license expired in 2012.

I suppose this gets one functional endocrinology practitioner off the streets, at least for now.

Functional Endocrinology for everyone!

Despite these small victories in Colorado and Utah, the practice of functional endocrinology persists around the country, as a quick google search will demonstrate.

Functional Endocrinology of Ohio

These chiropractors claim they can treat a wide range of diseases and conditions with functional medicine, cold lasers, trigenics, detoxification, and functional endocrinology. The latter is used to treat diabetes, among other things.

At Functional Endocrinology of Ohio, we have a proven track record of turning back the hands of time on diabetes (and other conditions). Our clients reduce their need for diabetic medication (including insulin) as well as other medications and, in some cases, eliminate the need for medications altogether with the help of their medical doctor. By finding out the cause of their diabetes, we are able to bring the body chemistry back into alignment, reverse diabetes, and improve the patient’s overall health dramatically.

Healing Partnership; Encinitas, California

This practitioner, Bryan Stern, LAc, has been a student in chiropractic, naturopathic and oriental medicine schools, but is practicing under an acupuncture license. Apparently he leaves no quackery stone unturned. According to his CV, he has studied cranial therapy, electromagnetic field therapies, advanced bio-electronic diagnosis, biological detoxification, Vegatest, photon resonance testing, vector point cranial therapies, contact reflex analysis, neuro emotional technique and quantum neurology (more on this below). He studied functional endocrinology under the tutelage of the aforementioned Datis Kharrazian. Here’s some of what he has to say on that subject:

Functional Endocrinology

A New Paradigm in Balancing Hormones

The dominant approach in western medicine when it comes to balancing hormones is based on the assumption that there are no restorative capabilities of the endocrine system; that is, if function is lost replacement therapy is the primary alternative.

However, physicians that provide hormone replacement without consideration to the causative reasons for the imbalance, as well as the alterations that might be created by the replacement, have no respect or understanding for [sic] human physiology.

I think we all know who has “no respect or understanding for human physiology” and it’s not physicians.

The Hayden Institute; Houston, Texas

Practitioners include a chiropractor/acupuncturist and a chiropractor/ applied clinical nutritionist/quantum neurologist. (Read Steve Novella’s post from yesterday to learn more about this “institute” and “quantum neurology.”) Among other services is the practice of functional endocrinology:

Using a Functional Endocrinology approach to health, a practitioner at The Hayden Institute reviews your history, blood and saliva tests, signs and symptoms in order to create a specific nutritional program for you. Functional Endocrinology focuses on identifying hormonal imbalance in the body when symptoms begin to develop rather than waiting for the organs or glands to be in a diseased state.

(Emphasis in original.)

Suncoast Functional Health Center; Sarasota, Florida

The practitioner is a chiropractor and another student of Dartis Kharrazian.

A medical doctor who specializes in the endocrine system is referred to as an endocrinologist. The prescribe medications and hormones in an attempt to address a dysfunctional or diseased endocrine system. Many times, these drugs carry a significant risk of dangerous side effects, and in fact, may not offer a viable long term solution to your problems. . . .

Below is an example of how we choose to shift the model

1 Thyroid doesn’t produce proper levels of hormones

2 Doctor [of chiropractic] determines the cause(s) associated with the loss of proper thyroid function

3 Doctor [of chiropractic] works to restore proper thyroid function using adjunctive and supportive therapy, so the body can once again produce proper levels of hormones ON ITS OWN for a lifetime.

I could go on, but I think you get the depressing picture.

Under the umbrella of their broad practice acts, chiropractors create, out of whole cloth, entirely new forms of quackery, which they then pass on to other chiropractors and alternative medicine practitioners. This ever-expanding galaxy of quackery won’t be stopped until the state legislatures act to limit the scope of alternative medicine provider practice acts and reign in their governing boards. Unfortunately, the trend is in the opposite direction.

Posted in: Chiropractic, Health Fraud, Herbs & Supplements

Leave a Comment (61) ↓

61 thoughts on “CAM Docket: Functional Endocrinology Update

  1. Kathy says:

    This makes me think of Hercules trying to kill the seven-headed hydra … as soon as he chopped off one head, seven more sprang up in it’s place.

  2. anthro49 says:

    “By finding out the cause of their diabetes, we are able to bring the body chemistry back into alignment, reverse diabetes, and improve the patient’s overall health dramatically.”

    The “root cause” of my Type II diabetes was obesity. I lost the weight. I now have normal blood sugar, er…my “body chemistry (is) back into alignment” I guess. My blood must have subluxations too! Who knew?

  3. Test comment–ignore. My screen name gets changed now and then and I have no clue how this happens. I am aka anthro49.

  4. Harriet Hall says:

    Thanks for writing this, Jann. A discouraging topic, but some encouraging steps in the right direction. I only wish we could get other reporters interested in quackery and willing to do what Marchetta has done in Colorado and what Brian Deer did about Wakefield in the UK. Do you think Marchetta might have some advice about how to get other reporters involved?

    1. Jann Bellamy says:

      Thanks, Harriett. I am going to contact Marchetta to congratulate her on these stories and let her know about the posts. I will ask her about getting other reporters interested.

      1. LindaRosaRN says:

        I also put a link to Jann’s essay on Marchetta’s Facebook site.

  5. Lez says:

    Jann, thanks for the article. I’m sorry to say that the link to this article is unlikely to turn up near the top of a Google query for “functional endocrinology” made by the average quack victim. It may not even make it to the first page of their search results. This article is your first result ‘thanks to’ Google’s personalisation. However that same mechanism will result in quackophiles mainly seeing quacks at the top of their results list. Self-sustaining reality distortion through the lens that Google provides.

    1. Jann Bellamy says:

      Thanks for the reality check. I am not very wise in the ways of the google world. I guess I can’t say “trifecta.” Maybe a double-header win?

  6. Lez says:

    Well, you do show up second and third in _my_ Google query (after http://www.balancingyourchemistry.com), and third and fourth when I use Safari (apparently Apple users have a penchant for http://www.healingpartnership.com, or vice versa).

    On the other hand, there’s no link to SBM at all when I try a Bing search. We’ll have a hard time helping Windows users out of the dark. Bing comes up with drivel right up to position 43 where there is a link to a 1953 book review – of a book aptly called “Functional Endocinology”.

    Equally disappointing are the DuckDuckGo results, normally a very commendable search engine (see donttrack.us for background). I had hoped its objectivity would be in our favour, but it returns all the usual suspects on its first pages. In this specific case I think we can’t blame it: Quacks and Ducks … must be some hormonal things going on.

    1. Dave858 says:

      With Bing, this article came up on the third page. I never use Bing, so I guess I got the default Bingsearch. Instead of scanning all the result pages, I searched for the word “science”. Within the first three pages of Bing results, this article is the only mention of science.

      OK, I’ve said Bing way too many times for a single day.

      1. WilliamLawrenceUtridge says:

        What happens when you google “spam” versus binging it?

        Is it just me or are the spambots getting slightly more sophisticated?

  7. Emil says:

    You guys are working your way through the Kubler Ross model -Denial, Anger, Bargaining, Depression Acceptance. The functional Medicine Revolution has begun! More and More MD’s are jumping ship daily. I see them at all the FM seminars! And guess what Functional Medicine is a 116 year old Chiropractic Principle. Big Pharma is on the way down. Medicines and Medical mistakes are the leading killer of disease close to a million people per year! The words out! People are waking up to the symptoms game. The new revolution is here lead by the Chiropractors all that is left to be accomplished is you fools getting to the acceptance stage! love it!

    1. WilliamLawrenceUtridge says:

      You mean this functional medicine? Whose definition is slippery to the point of meaninglessness?

      If chiropractors are as effective as you claim they are, why don’t these reuslts show up in clinical trials? Why are chiropractors forever unable to demonstrate that their practice adds value to anything but back pain? Why do chiropractors rely on shoddy “evidence” like testimonials (which can be faked quite easily and are meaningless even if genuine), or case studies (which are little more than testimonials really)?

      Your claim that “lots of doctors are showing up for seminars”, even if true, doesn’t mean functional medicine actually works.

      1. Emil says:

        Everything you wrote is opinion not fact. There is tons of evidence and research out there beyond just back pain. Have you even look? JMPT, Spine? Look to Dr. Chestnut or Dr. Gentempo they keep up to date on all the research. I assume you are in the medical field and I get it. Sometimes people hold on and grasp at every little bit of survival they can. It sucks when your lifestyle is supported by a big money making lie, and an industry of disease that is running out of drugs to peddle. The medical establishment put everything they had into drugs. It is easily mass produced and can be sold easily by MD’s their salesman with nice credentials. People are waking up to symptom care and the complications. So to save some kind of ego and preserve an income conventional doctors aggressively persecute alternative medicine practitioners that threaten their profit machine.

        And FM works, it is in black and white Blood Chemistry panels that initially show patients with B.S. at 250 on insulin, off Insulin in a couple weeks, dropping 20 pounds, and in 6 months non diabetics. See it everyday! People are mad too! Their waking up and telling stories won’t be long until pill pushing will look as barbaric as blood letting. I love this Job!!!!!!

        1. WilliamLawrenceUtridge says:

          Do you know what a systematic review is? Do you know why it is superior to individual articles? Are you familiar with these?

          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19444054
          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23787298
          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23449823
          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23235617
          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23149906
          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22972127
          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22522273

          How ’bout rather than throwing down a name, you provide links to actual peer-reviewed articles? The fact that desperate people try chiropractic care isn’t a point in its favour – it means it’s not a starting point for care and it is resorted to only when nothing else works.

          My lifestyle is not supported by drug sales, thanks. But chiropractors are quite directly supported by their provision of chiropractic care – so who has the greater conflict of interest? Further, while doctors are actively self-critical of the impact of drug companies on research (see Bad Pharma by Ben Goldacre, a doctor, writing about the medical literature on the harmful effects of pharma bias, none of which is provided by chiropractors) meanwhile chiropractors are actively attempting to build their practice through marketing, fearmongering, and pretending to be primary care practitioners.

          If chiropractic care is as effective as you say, then why not prove it in well-controlled clinical trials? Why keep referring to low-quality evidence like anecdotes and patient testimonials? If you can prove chiropractic care benefits patients, it will be adopted by many doctors (not to mention the horrible lack of ethics of delivering treatment you have no proof actually helps patients and is worth the risk).

          1. Emil says:

            http://www.naturalnews.com/042562_total_corruption_drug_companies_FDA_advisory_panels.html#

            Here your research big boy. Big Pharma buys their way into FDA boards, creates their own research and is Busted! This is the equal of insider trading, is it not? Their “studies” are all flawed, They create their own question and answer it so they can send drugs to the market and have their FDA coherts sitting at the table, are you kidding me? THey never study the long term affects or the interaction with all the other dope, impossible to rule out all the interactions
            I would agree medicine is experts with antibiotics and emergencies. Problem is this only short term care. The Dope dealers need more money, hence let’s create Chronic diseases. Now as a marketer they can pray on people from the cradle to the grave. It is a big sucker bet this is killing 1,000,000 people a year. And to feed your ego and your lifestyle MD’s act as the salesmen and push the dope. Man it really sucks to be you guys. I love my work and so do my patients. To see them get off Insulin in as little as 3 weeks, lose 30 pounds without exercise and see them get off all of their meds makes me lay my head down at night and feel the power of what we bring. We are waking them up my friend better be ready because you have a lot of questions to answer. LOVE IT!!!!! Plus what we do is back by government studies on the NIH website.

          2. Chris says:

            WLU request was this: “How ’bout rather than throwing down a name, you provide links to actual peer-reviewed articles?”

            How exactly is the Natural News website a peer reviewed scientific journal?

            “Big Pharma buys their way into FDA boards, creates their own research and is Busted! This is the equal of insider trading, is it not? Their “studies” are all flawed, They create their own question and answer it so they can send drugs to the market and have their FDA coherts sitting at the table, are you kidding me? THey never study the long term affects or the interaction with all the other dope, impossible to rule out all the interactions”

            So instead of actual evidence you come up with conspiracy theories over a non-story? Perhaps you have a better system to qualify medications and medical devices, or how to conduct research. Please share.

            Just make sure you include real scientific to support your statements.

          3. WilliamLawrenceUtridge says:

            1) That link doesn’t mention functional medicine at all

            2) Have you read Bad Pharma? Real medicine is already aware of these issues and attempting to resolve them – the response by loons like Mike Adams, Gary Null and Joe Mercola is to abandon medicine altogether.

            3) So, Big Pharma is greedy, and you can’t trust them because they are just out to make money. Meanwhile, Mike Adams’ site, Natural News, is plastered with ads and has a store with dozens of categories, and no doubt hundreds of products for sale. Why can you trust Mike Adams, despite his obvious profit incentive to sell you crap, and rake in money by hosting ads?

            4) The FDA does monitor the long-term safety of medications, and has pulled numerous from the market when safety issues were flagged in postmarketing surveillance. You are right that they could do a better job of reviewing multi-drug interactions, particularly over the long-term. The best option for this would be increasing the research funding budget through the NIH – so please write to your congressperson.

            5) Drug companies have indeed “created” illnesses – sometimes through expansion of the diagnostic criteria, sometimes with just advertising. Fortunately, doctors act as gatekeepers for medications. Bad Pharma has some ideas for reducing the impact of Big Pharma on individual practitioners, you should read the book and take up the advocacy efforts Dr. Goldacre specifies therein.

            6) Doctors also often love their work, and are also confident they help their patients. The difference being, of course, they are continually corrected and challenged by the peer reviewed literature. They are also responsible for patients with much more serious conditions, unlike the worried well alternative practitioners usually take advantage of. And finally, most are restricted by reimbursement schemes that incentivizes, if not outright forces, short interactions dealing with only single complaints. Your patients pay, doubtless a considerable amount out-of-pocket, for what is certainly a lengthy consultation filled with a buttload of caring interactions. Must be nice.

            7) If your practices are backed up by pubmed-indexed studies, why did you link to an ad-plastered page from Natural News? Are you a hypocrite?

  8. Windriven says:

    Emil,
    Would you be good enough to answer the one question that I pose to naturopaths, chiropractors, and other sCAM artists:

    Cite for me the 5 most important diseases that your variety of sCAM has cured. For a medical doctor, the answer to that question is difficult because there are so many to choose from. For sCAMsters the answer is always vague. Above you mentioned diabetes – one presumes Type 2. Can you cite a peer reviewed study with a reasonably large n that demonstrates the superiority of the FM approach over standard medical care?

    Meanwhile, naming 5 serious diseases cured by FM should be easy for you. You claim FM to be a 116 year old chiropractic principle. So what do you have, smallpox? No, that was medicine. Polio? Oops, medicine again. Hypercholesterolemia? Nope. Medicine again. But FM pioneered kidney transplants, didn’t it? Oh, wait, no that was medicine.

    So put up or shut up Emil. Right now your claim sounds like just so much chiropractic bullshit – the crap you hear in radio ads – big on hype, small on facts. 5 diseases FM has mastered with unambiguous peer reviewed citations to prove them. No ‘Internet Journal of Modern Shamanism’ citations please. Real science. After 116 years it should be a piece of cake.

    1. Emil says:

      Ok Smarty pants, you want research here we go: When I had a choice between being a dope pusher for big Pharma or Vitalism it was an easy choice back by 14 premises laid out by Dr. James Chestnut Here we go Happy reading hot shots!

      #1 Chiropractic represents a natural, distinct, holistic vitalistic, conservative and rational health paradigm logicla and scientifically valid

      The Chiropractic Paradigm JMPT 1990;13 (5)
      Coulter The PAtient, The practioner, and Wellness: Paradigm lost, Pardigmn gained JMPT 1990;13(2)
      Association of CHiropractic colleges Position Paper #1 1996
      Lewit K, Manipulation Therapy in Rehabilitation of the motor System 1985

      #2 Segmental Restrictions of Movement and static and/or dynamic facet joint misalignment do commonly occur in the human spine and can accurately be defined as a vertebral subluxation complex

      Chapman-Smith, David the Chiropractic report 1988; 2 (3)
      Rome P “Usage of Chiropractic terminology 296 ways to say subluxation complex issues of the subluxation Chiropractic technique May 1996 8 (2)
      Dishman R Review of the literature supporting a scientific basis for the chiropractic subluxation process JMPT 1985, 8 (3)
      Dishman RW Static and Dynamic compenents of the subluxation process JMPT 1988 11 (2)
      Lantz Charles Immobilization degeneration and the fixation hypothesis of chiropractic subluxation CRJ 1988 1 (1) Part 1 and Intro to the model and Kinesiological compenet CRJ 1989 1 (3) part 2 the neurophysiological and myopathological components CRJ 1990 1 (4)
      Bolton Reflex effects of Vertebral subluxation The peripheral Nervous System JMPT 2000; 23 (20
      Budgell Brian Reflex Effects of Subluxation The autonomic nervous system JMPT 2000; 23 (2)
      Haldeman S Neurologic Effects of the Adjustment JMPT 2000; 23 (2)

      #3 Subluxation is the result of common physical emotional and/or modern industrialized lifestyle commonly presents traumas and stressors that lead to VSC epidemic

      McGill Stability:from biomechanics concept to chiropractic practice. JCCA 1999: 43(2)
      Lantz again here
      Zhao Histochemistry and Morphology of the Multifidus Muscle in Lumbar disc herniation Spine 2000; 25 (17)
      Videman T Experimental models of osteoarthritis: the role of immobilization Clinical Biomechanics 1987;2
      Rahlmann J Mechanisms of Intervertebral joint fixations JMPT 1987 10(4)

      #4 VSC always consists of kinesiological and neurological components that cannot be physiologically separated nor can their global effects on the mond body

      Bolton Reflex effects of Vertebral Subluxations The peripheral Nervous system JMPT 2000 23(2)
      Collins and Pfleger the neurophysiological evaluation of the subluxation complex:Documenting the neurological component with somatosensory evoked potentials CRJ 1994; 3 (1)
      Pollard and Ward A study of two stretching techniques for improving hip flexion ROM JMPT 1997 20(7)
      Pollard and Ward the effect of cervical or sacroiliac manipulation of hip flexion JMPT 1998 21(9)

      #5 Chronic decreased ROM associated with VSC results in adaptive neuroplastic changes resulting in increased nociceptive and decreased prprioceptive afferent input into the CNS

      Bolton Reflexeffects of VSC: the peripheral nervous system JMPT 2000 23(2)
      Seaman DR Joint Complex Dysfunction a novel term to replace subluxation: etiological and Tx considerations JMPT 1997; 20(9)
      McLain Mechanoreceptor endings in human facet joints Spine 1994 19(5)
      Wyke Neurolgy of cervial spine joints Physiotherapy 65:72-76; 1976

      #6Chronic increased afferent nociceptive input can result in central and peripheral sensitization and concomitant allodynia and sympathetically induced muscle spasms and vasoconstriction leading to chronic muscle and joint adaptation ie Subluxation degeneration

      Seaman Dr Joint complex dysfunction a novel term to replace subluxation:etiological and Tx considerations JMPT 1998 21 (4)
      Seaman DR Dysafferentation: a novel term to describe the neuropathophysiological effects of joint complex dysfunction. JMPT 1998 21 (4)
      Bartfai et al. 1986 In Progress in Brain Research vol 68

      #7 Chronic increased nociceptive input results in a chronic increased stress response and stress related adaptation and disease susceptibility in the host which often takes place in absence of conscience pain

      Meaney M PhD 2001 Stress and Disease: Who gets sick who stays well. Cortext Educational seminars
      Parkula 1992 J Spine Dis
      Furman and Gallo 2000 The Neurophysics of Human Behavior
      Spencer et al. Archives of Physical medicine 1984
      Seaman DR as in #6

      #8Decreased Mechanoreceptive input results in less inhibition of nociception and to decreased essential afferent input into the cerebellar-brainsrem-cortical loops that have been recently shown to coordinate homeostatic cognition, afferent, visceral function, as well as movement, muscle tone, and posture

      Jiang et al Identification of the location, extent and pathway of sensory neurological feedback after mechanical stimulation of a lateral spianl ligament in chickens Spine 1997 22 (1)
      Schmahmann J From movement to thought Anatomic substrates of the cerebellar contribution to cognitive processing HUMan brain mapping 1996(4)
      Balaban C Vestbullar nucleus projections to the parabrachial nucleus in Rabbits: implications for vestbular influences on the autonomic nervous system Exp Brain research 1996;108
      Yates et al. Descending pathways necessary for vestbular influences on sympathetic and inspiratory flow Brain research 1995
      Ghez and Fahn 1985 The Cerbellum in Principles of Neuroscience by Kandel and Schwartz
      Schmahmann and Sherman. The cerbellar cognitive affective syndrome Brain 1998 121
      Cuthbert et al. electrophysiological evidence of vestbular activation of the guniea pig hippocampus Neuroreport 2000 15 (11)
      Seaman Dr previous study
      Kandell,Schwartz and Jessel 1991 Principals of Neural Science

      #9The Chiropractic Adjustment!!! resotres ROM allowing proper static and/or dynamic alignment of facet joints, restores proper muscle and joint biomechanics and restores proper afferent neurological input by restoring mechanoreceptive input and decreasing nociceptive input

      Haldeman S Neurolgic effects of the adjustment JMPT 2000 23(2)
      Fitz-Ritson JMPT 1991
      Whittingham W Nilsson Active ROM in the cervical spine increases after spinal manipulation JMPT 2001 24 (9)
      Carrick F Cervical radiculopahty the Dx and Tx JMPT 1983 6(3)
      ‘”"”"”"”"”" of the Lumbar spine JMPT 1981 4(4)
      Cassidy the immediate eeftct of manipulation vs mobilization on pain and ROM in the CS: a randomized control trial JMPT 1992 15(9)
      Yurkiw ansd Mior Comparsions of 2 chiropractic techniques on pain and latewral flexion in neck pain patients. Chiropractic technique 1996 8(4) 155-62
      Gemmel HA and Jaconbensen The immediate eefect of activator vs merit adjustment on acut LBP and randomized control trial JMPT 1995 18(7) 453-6
      Keller and Colloca Mechanical force spinal manipulation increases trunk muscle strength assessed by electromyography JMPT 2000 9
      Osterbauer Tx and biomechanical assessment of pts w/ chronic SI joint syndrome JMPT 1993 16(2)
      Polkinghorn BS Tx of Chiropractic disc protrusion via instrumental Chiro adjustments JMPT 1998 21 (2)
      Lantz Charles Immobilization degeneration and the fixation of hypothesis of Chiro Subluxation CRJ 1988 1 (1)
      Videman experimental models of OA Clinical Biomechanics 1987:2

      #10 The Chiropractic adjustment restores healthy joint biomechanics by breaking up scar tissue and creates healthy neurological pathways by stimulating proprioceptors. These processes require substantial repetition through physiological stages of healing and neuroplasticity if long term functional correction is to take place

      Furman and Gallo the The Neurophysiology of Human Behavior
      McGill Stability from biomechanical concept to the chiropractic practice JCCA 1999 43(2)
      Alcantra et al. Chiropractic management of patients with myastheina gravis and VSC JMPT 1999 22 (5)
      Terrett AG Cerebral dysfunction a theory to explain some of the effects of chiropractic manipulation Chiropractic technique 1993 5(3)
      Dishman RW Static and dynamic compenets of the chiropractic subluxation complex JMPT 1988 11 (2)
      Troyanovich et al. Structural rehabilitation of the spine and posture Rationale for Tx beyond resolution of symptoms JMPT 1998
      Lewit K Manipulation-Reflex therapy and/or reinstititution of impaired locomotor function Manual Medicine (2)

      #11 Normalized nociceptive input results in decreased sensitization an dallodynia, normalization of sympathetic tone and normalization of the stress response and thus immune response LANDMARK WORK SHOWING DECREASED CORISOL LEVELS DECREASED aANXIETY AND DEPRESSION AND IMMUN INCREASE WITH CHIRO CARE!!!!!!

      Meaney M PhD 2001 Stress and disease seminar
      FIdelibus An overview of neuroimmodulation and pssoible correlation with the NMS JMPT 1989 (12)4
      Stein The sympathetic nervous system and CA Exp Neuro 1972
      Seleno Pfleger Grostic et al. The effects of specific upper cervical adjustment on the CD4 count of HIV positve pts CRJ 3
      Glasser et al. Stress Induced Immodulation Implications for Infectious disease JAMA June 23/30 1999 281 (24)
      Seitz JA I move therfore I am Psychology Today 1993: 26
      9th International Conference on Spinal Manipulation oct 5 2002 Toronto Reported in FCER Advance 23 (2) ****LANDMARK******

      #12 Normalized proprioceptive input leads to homeostatic afferent somatosensory input into the cerebellar-brainstem-corticol loops that coordinate movements muscle tone, posture as well cognition, affect, and visceral function

      Schemahman. the Cerebellum and Cognition. Int Rev Neurobiology Vol 41 ***HUGE HUGE HUGE HUGE***** HOW THE ADJUSTMENT AFFECTS THE STRESS RESPONSE VIA H-P-A AXIS**********
      Schemahamn From movement to thought Autonomic substrates of the cerebellar contributions to cognitive processing Human Brain Mapping 1996 (4)
      “Schmahmann and Sherman The Cerebellar cognitive affective syndrome Brain 1998 121
      Balaban Vestibular nucleus projections to the parabrachial nucleus in rabbits Exp Brain research 1996
      Kandell,Schwartz,Jessell 1991 Principles of Neural Science
      Seaman DR from #6
      Spinal Manipultion Conf in Toronto listed Before

      #13 Many fields of study including neuroscience, neuropsychology, ENDOCRINOLOGY, psychoneuroimmunology, and education have findings that support chiropractic as an important wellness and preventive intervention. The neuroanatomical substrates providing the link between proper propriceptive afferent input into the cerebellar-brainstem-cortical loops of life and healthy brain and body development and function have now been identified. This input has been termed an essential nutrient for proper brain and nervous system function and chiropractic is by far the best equipped profession to restore and improve it!

      PEDIATRICS PREMISE 13 and 14

      Jensen Learning eith the body in mind 2000
      Jensen 2000 Brain based learning the new science of teaching and training
      Seitz I move therefore I amPsychology today 1993; 26
      resatak 1979 Brain the last frontier

      #14 Regardless of symptoms every human being from birth to death requires regular chiropractic exams to ensure that this vital aspect of their mind-body system is functioning as well as possible. this is essential to health and is also important in the prevention of disease. the time has come to take Chiropractics rightful position atop the wellness and prevention ladder.
      Eisenberg et al trends in ALternative Medicine Use in the US 1990-1997 HERE WE COME PILL PUSHERS!!!!!
      PEDIATRICS
      Seitz I move therfore I am Psycholgy today
      Guttman Blocked atlantal nerve Syndrome in babies and infants Manuelle Medizin 1987 25
      Biedermann Kinematic imbalances due to suboccipital strain in newborns Manual Medicine 1992
      Jesper et al. the short term effect of spinal Manipulation in the tx of infantile colic JMPT 1999 22 (8)
      Gottlieb Neglected spinal cord brain stem and Musculoskeletal injuries stemming from birth traumas JMPT 1993 16 (8)

      Must I go on? Would you Dope Dealers believe more in the affects of a silly pill or potion vs. the amazing ability of the body to heal itself after the removal of a subluxation? HA! this research should take a few months after you are done I will give some sup[port to Functional Medicine If you can handle it.

      1. Chris says:

        Emil:

        Must I go on? Would you Dope Dealers believe more in the affects of a silly pill or potion vs. the amazing ability of the body to heal itself after the removal of a subluxation?

        Do subluxations even exist? Oh, I’d love to see the papers that show chiropractic has a cure for obstructive hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. Produce a real citation not the mish mash like the following I tried to trudge through:

        The Chiropractic Paradigm JMPT 1990;13 (5)… PMID 2376722, which is a comment on a commentary

        Chapman-Smith, David the Chiropractic report 1988; 2 (3), can’t find on PubMed due to weird cite format

        Coulter The PAtient, The practioner, and Wellness: Paradigm lost, Pardigmn gained JMPT 1990;13(2)… PMID 2307916, this is a study?

        Association of CHiropractic colleges Position Paper #1 1996… Is that opinion or science? Not found on PubMed.

        Lewit K, Manipulation Therapy in Rehabilitation of the motor System 1985… not found on PubMed

        Chapman-Smith, David the Chiropractic report 1988; 2 (3)… again?

        Rome P “Usage of Chiropractic terminology 296 ways to say subluxation complex issues of the subluxation Chiropractic technique May 1996 8 (2)… Not found on PubMed

        Dishman R Review of the literature supporting a scientific basis for the chiropractic subluxation process JMPT 1985, 8 (3)… PMID: 4056626, which concludes “The scientific community is about to see that chiropractic is leading the way in discovering the “new world” in health care. Past, present and future research is discussed.”, sounds like cheerleading and not science.

        Dishman RW Static and Dynamic compenents of the subluxation process JMPT 1988 11 (2)… PMID: 3290377, a comment on another paper.

        … and on and on, lots of cheerleading, opinion and very little science, and does not even approach answering the question that was asked: “Cite for me the 5 most important diseases that your variety of sCAM has cured.” Because on planet are the following considered important diseases:

        #1 Chiropractic represents a natural, distinct, holistic vitalistic, conservative and rational health paradigm logicla and scientifically valid

        #2 Segmental Restrictions of Movement and static and/or dynamic facet joint misalignment do commonly occur in the human spine and can accurately be defined as a vertebral subluxation complex

        #3 Subluxation is the result of common physical emotional and/or modern industrialized lifestyle commonly presents traumas and stressors that lead to VSC epidemic

        #4 VSC always consists of kinesiological and neurological components that cannot be physiologically separated nor can their global effects on the mond body

        #5 Chronic decreased ROM associated with VSC results in adaptive neuroplastic changes resulting in increased nociceptive and decreased prprioceptive afferent input into the CNS

        How are those and the remaining numbered items actually important diseases?

      2. WilliamLawrenceUtridge says:

        1) I’m not a doctor, I can’t prescribe drugs.

        2) That is a series of assertions, not proof. They are claims that chiropractic care works, they do not demonstrate that this claim is true.

        Seriously, there has never been proof that subluxations exist, and when different chiropractors try to identify where the subluxation is, either through x-ray or palpation, they identify different joints.

        The body does have an amazing ability to heal itself, that’s why clinical trials employ randomization and control groups, to ensure the intervention improves healing rates and you aren’t simply seeing regression to the mean. This makes chiropractic research’s misuse of publications, in the form of using only case studies and satisfaction surveys, particularly distasteful. You’re pretending to do science so you can capitalize on its social capital, but you never actually do real science. Chiropractic care has existed for over a century but in that time period, only recently has bothered to test some interventions, and only one has found any support – acute low back pain.

        Unless we’re missing something? Rather than a laundry list of assertions, why not some well-designed clinical trials which include control groups, randomization, statistical tests, adequate reporting of drop-out rates and publication in a conventional journal rather than the in-house, chiropractic specialist journals? Do you even understand the difference between science as marketing and science as a test of an idea?

        1. Young CC Prof says:

          That article is pretty amazing, and not in a good way. I especially liked this part:

          “The KISS syndrome is possible if one or more of these are present:
          Vacuum or forceps delivery
          Wrong positioning of infant in the womb
          Cesarean section, multiple pregnancy
          Prolonged labor, very rapid delivery
          Poor sucking and swallowing
          Vomiting (reflux)
          Poor sleeping pattern”

          Could someone please name five infants this DOESN’T describe? That’s like a laundry list of things new parents worry about, and most of them have nothing to do with the others.

  9. Windriven says:

    @Emil

    Is this a joke? You’ve listed a bunch of nothing. I asked for the five most important diseases that chiroquacksters have cured and meaningful, peer reviewed evidence. You have provided a list of nothing.

    Name the effing diseases and your proof you pathetic poser. You can’t because it doesn’t exist. You can’t because chiropractic and FM is smoke and mirrors. You can’t cure squat. On your best day you may provide temporary relief for back pain.

    How do you look yourself in the mirror? Gaze at the expanse of human suffering that medicine has brought to heal over the last century. Then look at your pseudo-profession and its empty bucket of pipe dreams and pretenses. Look at the work being done by medical science – investigating the molecular biology of cancer, the genetics of disease entities, imaging soft tissues using positron emission tomography. Then look at chiropractic – still gazing at its navel in search of unicorns and subluxations.

    Just pathetic. There is no other way to describe it. Delusional. Credulous. Pathetic. Do something useful with your life. I understand there is a need for welders and truck drivers.

  10. Windriven says:

    “When I had a choice between being a dope pusher for big Pharma or Vitalism”

    Don’t make me laugh. You couldn’t have gotten into medical school if your grandfather was Albert Schweitzer. I doubt if you could have gotten a job as a pharmaceutical salesman.

    1. Emil says:

      Look here you close minded egotistical F@#* Everyone on your so called Scientific board asks for research. I gave you days of reading. A hypothesis backed by clinical research for over 14 premises supporting the Validation of the Chiropractic Wellness Paradigm. As far as Cures? I’m not falling in that trap everyone knows only the great Medical Establishment can make that claiming.
      So lets look at these so called “Cures”
      #1 Cause of Death in the US The American Medical System 999,936 Deaths!!!! KILLED by normal medical practice. Death by Medicine Gary Null PhD Carolyn Dean MD Martin Feldman MD Debroah Rasio MD Dorthy Smith MD
      #2Cancer $700,000 Not like you scum bags are not trying average Spending 60 billion for the treatment no for a “CURE” when your pulling in that kind of Change
      #3 Heart disease 550,000 deaths We have 3 times the rates of heart disease when compared to Japan and France
      5/6 Americans will die from Heart Disease and CA in this country. Following or Standards of Care What a Joke!

      We make up 5 % of the worlds population and consume 65% of the worlds drugs!!!! Yet where do we rank? 33rd in infant mortality 37 in Life expectancy!

      ANd you ask me about cures!!!!! This website and especially you are a joke!!!!! We would all be much better off and safer if all of you dope dealers took a job as a welder or truck driver. I would be embarrassed if my profession produces such dismal stats!!!! Now excuse as I get back to healing my patients I’m done with all of you.

      1. Windriven says:

        Ah Emil, it just infuriates you that you can’t answer my simple question, doesn’t it? Five. How hard can that be after, what, 116 years?

        Calling me names won’t make the five appear and it won’t distract us from the question.

        Making a list of ho-hum citations, several of truly questionable provenance, doesn’t help either. We are not easily baffled by a blizzard of bullshit.

        Five. Not five articles where some quackery worked for Auntie Myra and her neighbor Joan. Five significant disease entities that are routinely successfully cured using FM or any other chiroquackery.

        As to your silly fulminating, who are you going to see when your appendix or your gall bladder goes hot? How are you going to manage polio and measels and pertussis when we stop vaccinating? Who will you see when your daughter presents with an ectopic pregnancy or your wife with cervical cancer? Where will you turn when your father develops an abdominal aortic aneurysm?

        You are a quack. Chiropractic is organized quackery. You and your ilk offer nothing but smoke and mirrors.

        “I would be embarrassed if my profession produces such dismal stats!!!! Now excuse as I get back to healing my patients I’m done with all of you.”

        Your pseudo-profession has a long way to climb before you can claim even dismal results. But ta-ta. Go back to the serious work of preying upon the weak and the frightened and the credulous. You haven’t added much to the conversation here so you certainly won’t be missed.

      2. WilliamLawrenceUtridge says:

        A hypothesis backed by clinical research for over 14 premises supporting the Validation of the Chiropractic Wellness Paradigm.

        What you don’t realize is that this is the problem, not the solution. A hypothesis is tested. What you’ve really got are 14 hypotheses, each of which needs to be tested individually. You’ve got a whole mess of low-quality citations, none of which actually test anything as far as I can tell. There were letters to the editor and editorials that suggested Saddam was purchasing yellowcake uranium and attempting to create chemical weapons – but upon testing these claims failed.

        Don’t you see the important distinction between a series of opinions by people who make money if their opinions are unchallenged, versus actual tests of these opinions to see if they are true? Do you really think science is made up of people just thinking about stuff? That’s what prescientific thought was, and it’s only after we began testing our preconceived notions that science and medicine began making the amazing leaps it has in the past three centuries.

        You are trapped in prescientific thought, the exact same mode of thought that supported bloodlettng for millennia. Join the 21st century – if you are so confident that chiropractic care is safe and effective, test it.

        1. Windriven says:

          That was bait and switch, William. The little weasel doesn’t want to answer my quite cogent and specific question. So he tried to change the subject. It is one of the hoariest debate tactics extant.

          Your point is, as usual, spot on. Unfortunately, it is written in a language that Emil not only doesn’t understand but a language he doesn’t even know he doesn’t understand. To the Emils of the world the merest superficial illusion of scientific legitimacy is equivalent to the fact of scientific rigor. It is as the student who has just learned to say ‘es ist lange her zeit Ich Sie gesehen habe’ claiming fluency in German.

      3. Chris says:

        Emil:

        #3 Heart disease 550,000 deaths We have 3 times the rates of heart disease when compared to Japan and France
        5/6 Americans will die from Heart Disease and CA in this country. Following or Standards of Care What a Joke!

        Which is why I am baffled that you have not yet offered a better treatment for obstructive hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. I have asked about this many times, but I never get an answer. I am just ignored. Is it because it is a real heart condition that is several multisyllabic words? Don’t you think it is important that it is the most common cause of cardiac death in young people, and not the elderly who die of age related heart issues?

        If beta blockers and surgery are so horrible, what is a better alternative?

  11. Emil says:

    DD Palmer
    TONE
    “Nerves, like all material substances, are composed of particles, atoms or molecules, which vibrate, oscillate… When nerves are in normal condition, known as tone – normal tension… impulses are transmitted by vibration in a normal manner with usual force.”

    THE CREDIT CRUNCH
    FOR MATERIALISM
    “Materialism’s credit crunch changes everything. As science is liberated from this 19th century ideology, new perspectives and possibilities will open up, not just for science, but for other areas of our culture that are dominated by materialism.”

    - Sheldrake, R. The Credit Crunch for Materialism. EXPLORE May/June 2009

    THE RISE OF…MIND/BODY
    Placebos Are Getting More Effective. Drug Makers Are Desperate to Know Why.
    - Silberman, S. Wired Magazine 8-25-2009

    Unanticipated Benefits of CAM Therapies for Back Pain
    - Hsu C, Spruce J, et al. The Journal of Alternative and Complimentary
    Medicine Vol. 16 Num. 2-2010

    GNETIC CONTRIBUTION
    TO LONGEVITY
    New research from Yale University found that genes contribute only 25% to the length of your life.
    - Intellihealth 10/19/06

    LIFESTYLE AND
    GENETIC EXPRESSION
    After the three months, the men had changes in activity in about 500 genes – including 48 that were turned on and 453 genes that were turned off.

    “In just three months, I can change hundreds of my genes simply by changing what I eat and how I live? That’s pretty exciting,” Ornish said.”

    – Ornish D, et al: Changes in prostate gene expression in men undergoing an intensive nutrition and lifestyle intervention . Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. June 16, 2008

    TENSEGRITY
    … “mechanical forces applied at the macroscale produce changes in biochemistry and gene expression within individual living cells.”
    - Ingber, D.E., Tenesgrity and mechanotransduction. Journal of Bodywork and Movement Therapies (2008) 198-200

    PRENOSOLOGICAL DIAGNOSIS

    “The detection of borderline states between health and disease.”
    - Baevskii, R.M., Berseneva, E., et al. Use of Principles of Prenosological Diagnosis… Human Physiology, 2009 Vol. 35 No. 1

    THE AUTONOMIC SYSTEM

    “The decreased heart rate and increased SDNN as well as the total power from the HRV analysis indicates that chiropractic treatment is associated with a shift to a healthy autonomic nervous system balance.”
    - Zhang J, Dean D, Nosco D: Effect of Chiropractic Care on Heart Rate Variability and Pain in a Multisite Clinical Study. Journal of Chiropractic Education, Vol. 19, No. 1, 2005.

    THE AUTONOMIC SYSTEM
    316 references

    “Neurovertebral influence upon the autonomic nervous system: some of the somato-autonomic evidence to date”
    - Rome, P. Chiropractic Journal of Australia 2009; 39:2-17

    DYSPONESIS

    Dysponesis (dis’’po-ne’sis) [dys- + Gr. Ponésis toil, exertion] a reversible physiopathologic state consisting of unnoticed, misdirected neurophysiologic reactions to various agents (environmental events, bodily sensations, emotions, and thoughts) and the repercussions of these reactions throughout organism. These errors in energy expenditure, which are capable of producing functional disorders, consist mainly of covert errors in action-potential output from the motor and premotor areas of the cortex and the consequences of that output.
    - Dorland’s Medical Dictionary

    ORTHOPEDIC TESTS
    “The use of orthopedic tests has been an integral part of the physical examination for a long time. They have remained a part of the examination more by virtue of common use than on the basis of any scientific demonstration of their validity and clinical significance. To make a judgment on the clinical worth of a test, its validity, reliability, sensitivity and specificity should ideally be known. Unfortunately, for most, if not all, orthopedic tests, these measures have not been determined.”
    - Walsh MJ: “Evaluation of orthopedic testing of the low back for nonspecific lower back pain.” JMPT 1998;21(4):232.

    NEUROLOGICAL TESTS
    Richard Deyo, MD
    “In reality, though, if the patient has no neurological symptoms, including sciatica in the history, the yield of this is close to zero.”
    - The search for serious disease: what is the best strategy? The Back Letter 2003;18(9):102.

    Here’s where your Medical Research Is????? Even Medicine is Lost LoL!!!

    WHERE IS THE WISDOM?
    David Eddy, M.D., Ph.D.
    Only about 15% of medical interventions are supported by scientific evidence…This is partly because only 1% of the articles in medical journals are scientifically sound.
    - BMJ 1991 303:798

    BLOOD PRESSURE
    Yates RG, Lamping, DL, Abram NL, Wright C: Effects of chiropractic treatment on blood pressure and anxiety: a randomized,
    controlled trial. JMPT 1988; 11(6):484

    21 hypertensive patients. T1-T5 adjustments

    Systolic and diastolic blood pressure decreased significantly in the adjusted
    group, but not in the placebo and control groups.

    JOURNAL OF HUMAN HYPERTENSION
    Bakris, Dickholtz, et al.
    “We conclude that restoration of Atlas alignment is associated with marked and sustained reductions in BP similar to the use of two-drug combination therapy.”

    VISION PROBLEMS
    Terrett AGJ, Gorman RF: the eye, the cervical spine, and spinal manipulative therapy: a review of the literature. Chiropractic Technique 1995; 7(2):43.

    Gilman G, Bergstrand J: Visual recovery following chiropractic intervention. Journal of Behavioral Optometry 1990: 1(3):3.

    ULCERS
    Pikalov AA, Kharin VV: Use of spinal manipulative therapy in the treatment of duodenal ulcer: a pilot study. JMPT 1994: 17(5):310.

    11 ulcer patients received chiropractic care. They were compared to 24 cases treated medically. The chiropractic group experienced remission demonstrated endoscopically, and pain relief an average of 10days earlier than traditional care.

    DYSMENORRHEA
    Kokjohn K, Schmid DM, Triano JJ, Brennan PC: The effect of spinal manipulation on pain and prostoglandin levels in women with primary dysmenorrhea. JMPT 1992; 15(5):279.

    45 Subjects. Experimental and “sham” control group.

    Conclusion: SMT may be an effective and safe nonpharmacological alternative for relieving the pain and distress of primary dysmenorrhea.

    INFANTILE COLIC
    Klougart N, Nilsson N, Jacobsen J: Infantile colic treated by chiropractors: a prospective study of 316 cases. JMPT 1989;12(4):281.

    A satisfactory result occurred within 2 weeks in 94% if cases receiving chiropractic care.

    SENIOR CITIZENS OVER
    75 YEARS OF AGE
    Chiropractic vs. non-chiropractic patients in an insurance data base.

    Reported better overall health, fewer prescription drugs, and more activity.

    21% less time in hospitals over last 3 years.

    Coulter, et al. Topics in Clinical Chiropractic 1996;3(2):46

    SENIOR CITIZENS OVER
    65 YEARS OF AGE
    Had “maintenance care” for 5 years or longer.

    50% fewer medical provider visits.

    31% of national average for health care services.

    95.8% felt care “considerably” or “extremely” valuable.

    Rupert, Manello and Sandefur. JMPT 2000;23(1):10.

    SUbluxation
    A sign that an individual is stressed beyond their limits (g.a.p), not to the point of death, but enough that they cannot fully function. This results in compromised nervous system function that creates tension patterns and spinal misalignment.

    Chiropractic has a unique view about health and where it comes from. We understand that the body is self-healing and self-regulating. We understand that the nervous system is the master system the controller of that body. Further, we understand that if there is a disturbance in the function of the nervous system this will lead to interference with the ability for the body to properly heal and regulate. It’s that simple. It’s that powerful.
    We further understand that lifestyle stress comes in three dimensions:

    Physical – how we use our body.
    Biochemical – what we put into our body.
    Psychological – the mind-body connection.

    And if these three stresses combined escalate to a level beyond what our nervous system can process and dissipate, that this translates into the body going into defense physiology, a state that we in chiropractic call subluxation, that leads to degenerating health and well-being.

    1. Chris says:

      “DD Palmer”

      How did his daddy’s methods help with the injuries sustained by being hit with a car?

      “Sheldrake, R. The Credit Crunch for Materialism. EXPLORE May/June 2009″

      Now that is just silly. Does he also show that chiropractry make dogs more psychic.

      Again, a Gish Gallop. It in no way answers Windriven’s question. And please, please learn how to post a proper cite and not that mess of random caps, carriage returns and typos. Just make it easier for us and just post five PubMed Identification Numbers of the papers that show chiropractic is good for five medical conditions.

      Again, please try to do better than the British Chiropractic Association. They claimed to have eight papers on infant colic, but as stated in the linked article:

      Of the 8 studies presented for colic, one is a preliminary assessment of cranial osteopathy for colic. In the past chiropractors have complained that studies of non-chiropractic forms of manipulation cannot be used to dismiss the efficacy of chiropractic. It is disingenuous of the BCA to pad their list of evidence for chiropractic by including a study of osteopathic manipulation. Two of the studies were case reports. One report is a response to a questionnaire, and there were three unblinded or single-blinded studies, and one uncontrolled study. Therefore, not one prospective, double-blind, placebo-controlled study is presented. All we are given is low grade evidence.

      Also, the BCA left off the best designed study, which not surprisingly was negative. Olafsdottir et al (1) studied 86 infants with colic in a randomized controlled trial and found:

      “Chiropractic spinal manipulation is no more effective than placebo in the treatment of infantile colic.”

      How does the BCA justify omitting this study from their list? Do they think that an open scientific discussion of evidence means presenting only the evidence that seems to support their position?

      The BCA also neglected to reference a review of the evidence for chiropractic for colic by Hughes and Bolton (2) which concludes:

      “The evidence suggests that chiropractic has no benefit over placebo in the treatment of infantile colic. However, there is good evidence that taking a colicky infant to a chiropractor will result in fewer reported hours of colic by the parents.”

      Their conclusion was curious – chiropractic treatment for colic does not work but parents report that it does. Ordinarily science-based practitioners would simply interpret such results as being consistent with a placebo effect alone.

      What we see is the typical pattern of evidence for an ineffective treatment – low grade evidence showing an effect, but higher grade controlled evidence showing no effect above placebo. The bottom line is that existing evidence suggests that chiropractic manipulation is not effective in the treatment of colic. But the BCA cherry picked only the low grade evidence that supported their claim.

      The last sentence is bolded because it is exactly what you are doing, along with a Gish Gallop (which is the polite way of saying “baffling with bovine excrement”).

    2. Windriven says:

      What is this dog’s breakfast supposed to mean, Emil? What are the five most significant diseases chiropractic has brought to heel? Where are the peer reviewed studies with substantial n? You throw handfuls of crap against the wall and act as if you’ve proven something. Focus.

      The number 1 disease that chiropractic has cured or prevented is ————– and there are significant, peer reviewed studies here, here and here that substantiate the claim. Moreover, X and Y have replicated the results in a much larger sample and this therapy should be considered standard of care.

      number 2….

      Number 3…

      How effing hard can this be after 116 years Emil? Don’t dodge and weave. Lay it out. Five clear,convincing examples. Not a snowstorm. Not a lot of chiropractic smoke and mirrors. Five specific diseases. You can count to five, right?

  12. Emil says:

    DD Palmer
    TONE
    “Nerves, like all material substances, are composed of particles, atoms or molecules, which vibrate, oscillate… When nerves are in normal condition, known as tone – normal tension… impulses are transmitted by vibration in a normal manner with usual force.”

    THE CREDIT CRUNCH
    FOR MATERIALISM
    “Materialism’s credit crunch changes everything. As science is liberated from this 19th century ideology, new perspectives and possibilities will open up, not just for science, but for other areas of our culture that are dominated by materialism.”

    - Sheldrake, R. The Credit Crunch for Materialism. EXPLORE May/June 2009

    THE RISE OF…MIND/BODY
    Placebos Are Getting More Effective. Drug Makers Are Desperate to Know Why.
    - Silberman, S. Wired Magazine 8-25-2009

    Unanticipated Benefits of CAM Therapies for Back Pain
    - Hsu C, Spruce J, et al. The Journal of Alternative and Complimentary
    Medicine Vol. 16 Num. 2-2010

    GNETIC CONTRIBUTION
    TO LONGEVITY
    New research from Yale University found that genes contribute only 25% to the length of your life.
    - Intellihealth 10/19/06

    LIFESTYLE AND
    GENETIC EXPRESSION
    After the three months, the men had changes in activity in about 500 genes – including 48 that were turned on and 453 genes that were turned off.

    “In just three months, I can change hundreds of my genes simply by changing what I eat and how I live? That’s pretty exciting,” Ornish said.”

    – Ornish D, et al: Changes in prostate gene expression in men undergoing an intensive nutrition and lifestyle intervention . Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. June 16, 2008

    TENSEGRITY
    … “mechanical forces applied at the macroscale produce changes in biochemistry and gene expression within individual living cells.”
    - Ingber, D.E., Tenesgrity and mechanotransduction. Journal of Bodywork and Movement Therapies (2008) 198-200

    PRENOSOLOGICAL DIAGNOSIS

    “The detection of borderline states between health and disease.”
    - Baevskii, R.M., Berseneva, E., et al. Use of Principles of Prenosological Diagnosis… Human Physiology, 2009 Vol. 35 No. 1

    THE AUTONOMIC SYSTEM

    “The decreased heart rate and increased SDNN as well as the total power from the HRV analysis indicates that chiropractic treatment is associated with a shift to a healthy autonomic nervous system balance.”
    - Zhang J, Dean D, Nosco D: Effect of Chiropractic Care on Heart Rate Variability and Pain in a Multisite Clinical Study. Journal of Chiropractic Education, Vol. 19, No. 1, 2005.

    THE AUTONOMIC SYSTEM
    316 references

    “Neurovertebral influence upon the autonomic nervous system: some of the somato-autonomic evidence to date”
    - Rome, P. Chiropractic Journal of Australia 2009; 39:2-17

    DYSPONESIS

    Dysponesis (dis’’po-ne’sis) [dys- + Gr. Ponésis toil, exertion] a reversible physiopathologic state consisting of unnoticed, misdirected neurophysiologic reactions to various agents (environmental events, bodily sensations, emotions, and thoughts) and the repercussions of these reactions throughout organism. These errors in energy expenditure, which are capable of producing functional disorders, consist mainly of covert errors in action-potential output from the motor and premotor areas of the cortex and the consequences of that output.
    - Dorland’s Medical Dictionary

    ORTHOPEDIC TESTS
    “The use of orthopedic tests has been an integral part of the physical examination for a long time. They have remained a part of the examination more by virtue of common use than on the basis of any scientific demonstration of their validity and clinical significance. To make a judgment on the clinical worth of a test, its validity, reliability, sensitivity and specificity should ideally be known. Unfortunately, for most, if not all, orthopedic tests, these measures have not been determined.”
    - Walsh MJ: “Evaluation of orthopedic testing of the low back for nonspecific lower back pain.” JMPT 1998;21(4):232.

    NEUROLOGICAL TESTS
    Richard Deyo, MD
    “In reality, though, if the patient has no neurological symptoms, including sciatica in the history, the yield of this is close to zero.”
    - The search for serious disease: what is the best strategy? The Back Letter 2003;18(9):102.

    Here’s where your Medical Research Is?????

    WHERE IS THE WISDOM?
    David Eddy, M.D., Ph.D.
    Only about 15% of medical interventions are supported by scientific evidence…This is partly because only 1% of the articles in medical journals are scientifically sound.
    - BMJ 1991 303:798

    BLOOD PRESSURE
    Yates RG, Lamping, DL, Abram NL, Wright C: Effects of chiropractic treatment on blood pressure and anxiety: a randomized,
    controlled trial. JMPT 1988; 11(6):484

    21 hypertensive patients. T1-T5 adjustments

    Systolic and diastolic blood pressure decreased significantly in the adjusted
    group, but not in the placebo and control groups.

    JOURNAL OF HUMAN HYPERTENSION
    Bakris, Dickholtz, et al.
    “We conclude that restoration of Atlas alignment is associated with marked and sustained reductions in BP similar to the use of two-drug combination therapy.”

    VISION PROBLEMS
    Terrett AGJ, Gorman RF: the eye, the cervical spine, and spinal manipulative therapy: a review of the literature. Chiropractic Technique 1995; 7(2):43.

    Gilman G, Bergstrand J: Visual recovery following chiropractic intervention. Journal of Behavioral Optometry 1990: 1(3):3.

    ULCERS
    Pikalov AA, Kharin VV: Use of spinal manipulative therapy in the treatment of duodenal ulcer: a pilot study. JMPT 1994: 17(5):310.

    11 ulcer patients received chiropractic care. They were compared to 24 cases treated medically. The chiropractic group experienced remission demonstrated endoscopically, and pain relief an average of 10days earlier than traditional care.

    DYSMENORRHEA
    Kokjohn K, Schmid DM, Triano JJ, Brennan PC: The effect of spinal manipulation on pain and prostoglandin levels in women with primary dysmenorrhea. JMPT 1992; 15(5):279.

    45 Subjects. Experimental and “sham” control group.

    Conclusion: SMT may be an effective and safe nonpharmacological alternative for relieving the pain and distress of primary dysmenorrhea.

    INFANTILE COLIC
    Klougart N, Nilsson N, Jacobsen J: Infantile colic treated by chiropractors: a prospective study of 316 cases. JMPT 1989;12(4):281.

    A satisfactory result occurred within 2 weeks in 94% if cases receiving chiropractic care.

    SENIOR CITIZENS OVER
    75 YEARS OF AGE
    Chiropractic vs. non-chiropractic patients in an insurance data base.

    Reported better overall health, fewer prescription drugs, and more activity.

    21% less time in hospitals over last 3 years.

    Coulter, et al. Topics in Clinical Chiropractic 1996;3(2):46

    SENIOR CITIZENS OVER
    65 YEARS OF AGE
    Had “maintenance care” for 5 years or longer.

    50% fewer medical provider visits.

    31% of national average for health care services.

    95.8% felt care “considerably” or “extremely” valuable.

    Rupert, Manello and Sandefur. JMPT 2000;23(1):10.

    SUbluxation
    A sign that an individual is stressed beyond their limits (g.a.p), not to the point of death, but enough that they cannot fully function. This results in compromised nervous system function that creates tension patterns and spinal misalignment.

    Chiropractic has a unique view about health and where it comes from. We understand that the body is self-healing and self-regulating. We understand that the nervous system is the master system the controller of that body. Further, we understand that if there is a disturbance in the function of the nervous system this will lead to interference with the ability for the body to properly heal and regulate. It’s that simple. It’s that powerful.
    We further understand that lifestyle stress comes in three dimensions:

    Physical – how we use our body.
    Biochemical – what we put into our body.
    Psychological – the mind-body connection.

    And if these three stresses combined escalate to a level beyond what our nervous system can process and dissipate, that this translates into the body going into defense physiology, a state that we in chiropractic call subluxation, that leads to degenerating health and well-being.

    1. Chris says:

      Wait, what? So if one Gish Gallop is good, a second one is better?

      1. Emil says:

        That’s all you got? I broke you next!

        1. Chris says:

          No, there is more. I have an answer the first version of this Gish Gallop. I was just surprised that when I hit “submit” that my answer was above the same comment. Which turned out to be a duplicate.

          And the comment about you using a Gish Gallop of cherry picked nonsense like the British Chiropractic Association is still valid.

          Also I mixed up your mythology. It seems that there are issues like “D.D. claimed that his son B.J. struck him with his car.[16]. It is so hard to keep up with made up non-science, since it is never consistent.

          Also, where is the evidence that you have something better than science based medical treatment for obstructive hypertrophic cardiomyopathy? If you are claiming that medicine lacks so much, what is your alternative for a leading cause of sudden cardiac death in young people?

        2. Windriven says:

          You broke what? You broke nothing other than your already tenuous grip on reality. You truly are delusional. You can’t structure a meaningful argument. You can’t apply logic, reason or science to either your observations or your advocacy. Apparently you can’t even count to five.

          It would seem that all you can do effectively is sell nonsense to those who don’t know better. That makes you a heel not a healer; a grifter, a predator, a confidence man.

          And it occurs to me that you are also the intellectual equivalent of a litterbug, dropping wads of spent idiocy in the halls of scientific discourse.

          Man up Emil. It is time to cast aside the empty rhetoric, the meaningless lists, the citations of nothing. Demonstrate that you you have something intelligent to contribute. Give us the fabulous five. Or shut the eff up and slink away to whatever gutter you come from.

    2. Harriet Hall says:

      The level of your discourse is obvious from your first comment: ““Nerves, like all material substances, are composed of particles, atoms or molecules, which vibrate, oscillate… When nerves are in normal condition, known as tone – normal tension… impulses are transmitted by vibration in a normal manner with usual force.”

      You are quoting D.D. Palmer, who was ignorant of modern science. He had no idea that nerve signals are not transmitted by vibration but by electrical and biochemical processes. He thought all body functions were controlled by spinal nerves: he didn’t consider cranial nerves or the autonomy of the heart’s pacemaker; he didn’t even know about hormones. And he didn’t know that organs could be severed from all their nerve connections and still function normally after transplantation into another body.

      I won’t bother to explain what is wrong with the rest of the items on your list, because you are obviously not prepared to listen or to understand.

      1. Emil says:

        Lady DD died in 1913, your a genius for saying he was ignorant of modern science. LOL There was no modern science when he was around HAHAHAHA What a dumbass! He is taking about the idea of Tone, that the rest of the research I laid out proves him correct. Take a shoot at putting a hole in my defense. What a Fool

        1. Windriven says:

          You’re frothing at mouth now, Emil. “Lady DD”?

          “Lady DD died in 1913, your a genius for saying he was ignorant of modern science. LOL There was no modern science when he was around HAHAHAHA ”

          You’re laughing out of your ass, Emil. Albert Einstein published special relativity in 1905. Is that modern enough science for you? LOL. HAHAHAHAHAHA

        2. WilliamLawrenceUtridge says:

          Please see my next comment, your research is pretty low-level, unconvincing and generally shoddy.

          By the way, “your” is a possessive, similar to “his” or “her”. You mean “you’re” which is a short form for “you are”.

        3. Harriet Hall says:

          “Lady DD” ??
          I know there was no modern science in his day: that was precisely my point.
          The rest of the “research you laid out” is irrelevant. It does not prove him correct about “tone” and “vibrations,” it doesn’t refute the fact that nerve conduction is electrical, and it doesn’t prove him right about spinal nerves affecting all body functions. In fact, as I pointed out, hormones and organ transplants prove him wrong. Nerves are not under tension, and “tone” is a term applicable to muscles, not nerves.

          1. Windriven says:

            Dr. Hall, it took me a while to understand that our friend Emil was referring to you as ‘Lady’. What he intended to say was, “Lady, D D Palmer died in 1913…” He seems totally oblivious to the fact that science was quite vibrant and alive in the early years of the twentieth century. Medical science maybe not so much. But how does that make ole DD not full of poop? Medicine had its share of mistakes in 1913. But somehow we’ve managed to outgrow them. Chiropractic clings to the outdated illusions like an emotionally stunted child to a favorite teddy bear.

        4. Windriven says:

          And what about Louis Pasteur? He was long dead by 1913. Was his contribution to the germ theory of disease not modern science? And Semmelweiss was even earlier.

          What exactly counts for modern science in your feeble little mind, Emil? DD Palmer was full of crap. That might not have been as clear in 1913 as it is today but where is the justification for clinging to prescientific superstition?

          1. Chris says:

            Then there was the 1910 Flexner Report, which insisted on more science in medical education.

          2. Windriven says:

            Indeed, Chris. I’d forgotten Flexner.

            Science is a process of growth and change. We know immeasurably more today than we did in 1913 and we will know immeasurably more in 2113 than we know today.

            This is part of the beauty of science and it is the single most important characteristic that differentiates it from chiropractic, naturopathy, TCM and the rest of the sCAMmery out there. Medical science grows by the hour. sCAMmery wallows in an unchanging miasma of superstition and wishful thinking.

    3. WilliamLawrenceUtridge says:

      So you posted a whole bunch of snippets and quotes that indicated a couple things:

      a) Real medicine isn’t perfect (duh)
      b) Word salad that never seemed to mention “subluxations” (I guess what you’re trying to get at is that nerves do influence health? Again, duh, but that doesn’t justify chiropractic)
      c) Some specific citations. Let’s look at them:

      - Yates et al. 1988. It’s from a chiropractic in-house journal, nothing like JAMA. It’s got what appears to be 3 groups of 7 patients, found a short-term decrease in systolic and diastolic blood pressure in active treatment condition. Blood pressure is labile over very short periods of time – even something as just laying down (as one would for a treatment) could affect this. The conclusion was “Further study is needed to examine the long-term effects of chiropractic treatment on blood pressure.” Here’s a question – would you trust a drug that was tested on only 21 patients with three groups and the results were “short term decreases in systolic and diastolic blood pressure”? If the answer is “no”, why the double standard? You’ve got a study here that is at best hypothesis-generating, for short-term changes with no long-term link to health. You’ve got very little, certainly nothing that justifies chiropractic care as a front-line treatment for high blood pressure.

      - Pikalov and Kharin. This was another pilot study, even smaller (11 patients), and it’s basically the same thing – short term changes in a tiny group of people, numbers that are a very, very basic starting point, not proof. Would you try a drug that was tested on only 11 patients? Not to mention, antibiotic drug treatment for ulcers is not about short-term care, it’s about preventing relapses over the long-term, so a short-term follow-up is meaningless, particularly as ulcers appear and disappear rapidly and unpredictably.

      - Kokjohn et al. is the same thing – a small-N preliminary trial that would be laughed out of the FDA if you presented it as a drug trial; hypothesis generating, not proof. Tests were for pain and some blood level of a prostaglandin metabolite immediately after manipulation. Does the metabolite measure mean anything? Is it associated with long-term hard outcomes? Not that it’s meaningful anyway, since both treatment and placebo groups showed the same decrease.

      - Klougart et al., did you notice the lack of control group? That renders this entire trial immediately meaningless. Did you know that colic improves on an order of weeks anyway? You may be interested in this post by Dr. Jones, examining colic. Would you take a drug tested by giving it to 316 people with no control group? If not, why the double-standard?

      - “Chiropractic vs. non-chiropractic patients in an insurance data base.” I can’t find this on pubmed, but is this a naive comparison? People who visit chiropractors might be wealthier to begin with, or pay more attention to their health, or might be more active – leading to more musculoskeletal complaints and thus more referrals to chiropractors.

      You have no references for your definition of subluxation, and no substantiation that it exists. Again, when tested via x-ray or palpation, there is little agreement on the existence of subluxations, so your simple definition is worthless.

      Your points and sources point to your scientific illiteracy and the shamefully low standard of publications used to support chiropractic practice, little else. They highlight the double-standard you hold for chiropractic care – incredibly high and rife with accusations of conflict of interest for drugs and doctors, incredibly lax and ignoring conflicts of interest for chiropractic care.

      If single studies with patient groups in the low dozens is what it takes to convince you that a treatment is valid, there are a multitude of drugs under development that you might be interested in.

  13. pmoran says:

    Emil: “Lady DD died in 1913, your a genius for saying he was ignorant of modern science. LOL There was no modern science when he was around HAHAHAHA What a dumbass!”

    That is also not made true by your saying of it. But even if “modern” science is arbitrarily said to have begun after 1913, that merely helps explain chiropractic theory and many very dissimilar old medical theories, some of which persist to this day: homeopathy, TCM, etc. .

    The proponents of all of them thought that they were right. They persist for the same now well-understood reasons. Everyday medical practice, and even also less than totally rigorous medical research is full of illusions that can strongly suggest treatment efficacy. That is something else they did not know much about in 1913.

    To be clear, this is an attack on the theory. We cannot exclude some benefits to patients from the kind, hand-on medical attentions via placebo and other non-specific aspects of medical interactions. That is probably one component of the illusion referred to above.

  14. Emil says:

    You people are like a giant cult! You can’t see the forest through the trees! It is quite funny from the outside looking in. I gathered serval pieces of research that stands up at all scientific levels, and you pick through the ones you totally ignore others. Look at old Pompous Ass Utridge- His claims of the superiority of the JAMA, and the FDA? Are you kidding me these guys have already diminished the FDA by buying their way on to the board of the FDA to pass their drugs through trials. Yes the JAMA research is so great, that is why drug companies are getting sued left and right for the harmful effects of their poison. How about the one knucklehead above that keeps talking about Cardiomylopathies, my god give it a rest. Can you not read the papers I gave you, only fools look and chase symptoms i.e. 550,000 dead each year. Not one of you addressed the short coming of all the dope dealing going on that I presented. The method of drug management is a total bust, 5/6 people are dying from the great research you fools support, but our methods as an alternative are inadequate. Can you actually get any worse from where we sit now? But I must say my favorite is Windriven, just by his words I can see the old goat busting a vein and pounding the keyboard in disdain and hate. “Nobody questions my knowledge” Love it! Before I go forever the last laugh is on you. I checked out your facebook page photos. Unimpressed to say the least. I see where you get your stance I bet everyone of you were bullied in school. I mean you fools could not get laid in a whorehouse! LOL Keep real guys what you are doing for society is great! Look at the healthcare system we live in, Job well done. The Scientific Research you claim to be spearheading is changing the lives of everyone, You fools need to get a new area of focus your destroying lives for the love of money. Get ready for the revolution because the change of guard is coming!!!!!

    1. Windriven says:

      Emil, you are a gutless punk. You aren’t man enough to admit that your quackery cures nothing even though you can’t provide basic scientific evidence supporting five significant diseases that chiropractic has mastered. The more you talk the less you say.

      1. Emil says:

        Gutless? I’ve been called many things gutless is not one of them!!!! I got you all riled up Jack! All riled up! I’m in your head you arrogant asshole, I will pull your strings like the puppet you are. You hear me!! You got my name I’m not hiding behind some moniker. I’m real, part of the future we are coming to expose your myths. And while you fools sit behind a computer debating your future demise (you see it coming, How many more diseases can you create with your “cures”) I will got to work and continue to create my Army. Reversing Diabetics who get off of Insulin in under two weeks, Who’s blood sugars drop from 250 on your dope to 100 on nothing. Lose weight without exercise, and seeing their Endocrinologist who must legally pull their 10+ year diabetics off the dope, and make up excuses to cover his ass. People want answers and are pisssed, our web is getting bigger hence the growing CAM visits. People are wising up to the greed and lies. Your days are numbered asshole enjoy them, I know I will enjoy every minute!!!!!

        1. Windriven says:

          You fantasize, Emil. You’re the one frothing at the mouth. All I’ve done is ask for the five most important medical conditions that chiropractic has conquered along with meaningful scientific evidence to back up the claim. And you’ve come up with bupkis.

          This is a forum about science. Evidence talks and bullshit walks.

        2. Chris says:

          Emil: “How many more diseases can you create with your “cures”) I will got to work and continue to create my Army. ”

          I did not create obstructive hypertrophic cardiomyopathy. How could we create one of the most common reasons for sudden cardiac death in young people? When my son had a genetic screen there were eighteen known genetic sequences that case this heart disorder, but he did not have any of them. So it seems there are other genetic sequences that cause it.

          Why won’t you tell me how chiropractic methods provides a better solution to HCM than beta blockers and surgery? Is it some kind of secret, or does chiropractors fail at real medicine?

        3. WilliamLawrenceUtridge says:

          I got you all riled up Jack! All riled up! I’m in your head you arrogant asshole, I will pull your strings like the puppet you are.

          Ah, so you are a troll then. As a substitute for being unable to offer any real science to support your assertion, you are simply lapsing into name-calling. Mature.

    2. WilliamLawrenceUtridge says:

      Even if medical treatment caused 550,000 deaths per year, that just means medical treatment needs to improve. It does not mean that chiropractic treatments are effective for anything. You are indulging in a logical fallacy known as the “false dilemma” – present two alternatives as if they were the only ones available, attempt to invalidate one and pretend this justifies the second. In this case, present medicine and chiropractic as if only one could be safe and effective, criticize medicine, and pretend that justifies chiropractic. The reality is, medicine could be unsafe and ineffective, and chiropractic could also be unsafe and ineffective. Upon testing, medicine presents a complicated series of risk to benefit tests for each individual treatment option, and chiropractic care is essentially untested for pretty much every condition. Rather than continuing to attack medicine, why not defend chiropractic? When doing so, could you explain how “The FDA and JAMA are tainted by drug company money so you can’t trust them” is a valid argument, but a series of journals exclusively edited, reviewed and submitted by chiropractors, all of whom have a vested financial interest in promoting chiropractic care, is a bastion of truth and quality? Because that looks like yet another double-standard. It looks like you are wittingly or unwittingly being hypocritical.

      I’m also not sure how Windriven’s facebook picture, or whether he was bullied in school, in any way approaches an intelligent argument. It rather looks like you are trying to bully your way into a coherent point, and failing.

      1. windriven says:

        “I’m also not sure how Windriven’s facebook picture, or whether he was bullied in school, in any way approaches an intelligent argument.”

        William, I believe he was referring to Facebook photos of the SBM editorial staff. I don’t have a Facebook page under either ‘windriven’ or my real name. I dislike the business model so I don’t support it.

        The rest of his little schoolyard nonsense was just pathetic. I suspect that it was poor Emil who was bullied. He certainly seems to have some sort of persecution complex.

  15. weing says:

    “I gathered serval pieces of research that stands up at all scientific levels, and you pick through the ones you totally ignore others. ”

    I’m trying to figure this out. I’m guessing you mean “several” pieces of research. OK. It stands up at all scientific levels? What could they be? Level 1, 2, 3? Pick through the ones? The ones that don’t stand up at all scientific levels? Totally ignore the others? The others, I gather, stand up to all scientific levels because they haven’t yet been picked through? Am I getting this right? Maybe he just picked the low hanging fruit? The lazy cad.

Comments are closed.