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In Jenny McCarthy’s own words

Jenny McCarthy, regular readers of SBM know, has been a frequent target of criticism here. The reasons, of course, are very simple. She has become the most famous public face of the antivaccine movement, releasing a book every year or so since 2007 about how her son Evan has been “cured” of autism through the dubious biomedical treatments she’s given him and how it was vaccines that supposedly caused her son’s autism. Most recently, she’s releasing a paean to antivaccine views and autism quackery entitled Healing and Preventing Autism: A Complete Guide, co-authored by Dr. Jerry Kartzinel. Dr. Kartzinel, some may recall, wrote the foreword to Jenny McCarthy’s very first paean to autism quackery back in 2007 and was properly lambasted by Autism Diva and Kevin Leitch for writing
things like:

Autism, as I see it, steals the soul from a child; then, if allowed, relentlessly sucks life’s marrow out of the family members, one by one…”

Sometimes, in order to appreciate just how wrong antivaccinationist are, it’s best to let them speak in their own words. Nowhere recently have I seen a better example of this than in an interview with Jenny McCarthy published on the TIME Magazine website. In it, along with the usual invocation of the “toxins gambit” and appeals to anecdotal evidence over science, Jenny reveals that she clearly thinks it’s regrettable but acceptable that infectious diseases will return because of the efforts of her and her fellow antivaccine activists:

TIME: Your collaborator recommends that parents accept only the haemophilus influenzae type B (HIB) and tetanus vaccine for newborns and then think about the rest. Not polio? What about the polio clusters in unvaccinated communities like the Amish in the U.S.? What about the 2004 outbreak that swept across Africa and Southeast Asia after a single province in northern Nigeria banned vaccines?

JM: I do believe sadly it’s going to take some diseases coming back to realize that we need to change and develop vaccines that are safe. If the vaccine companies are not listening to us, it’s their fucking fault that the diseases are coming back. They’re making a product that’s shit. If you give us a safe vaccine, we’ll use it. It shouldn’t be polio versus autism.

Words fail me. Rare, I know, but the above statement is just too much. That’s right. Jenny accepts zero culpability for her role in frightening parents about vaccines and thus driving down the vaccination rate. In Jenny’s warped world, your children are acceptable collateral damage in the cause of promoting her unscientific belief that vaccines cause autism.

Here’s a hint for you, Jenny: We already do have vaccines that are safe. The government is listening to you and your fellow antivaccine activists far more than your pseudoscientific nonsense deserves and even though you are a scientific illiterate. They do it because you and your fellow antivaccine activists whose public face you have become are endangering public health on the basis of no good science, and they are trying to prevent that. Indeed, scientists continue to waste millions of dollars studying over and over again the question of whether vaccines are associated with autism and keep finding the same answer: They aren’t. It’s a no-lose situation for you. No matter how many studies exonerate vaccines as a cause of autism, you can simply say you don’t believe them. You can blithely dismiss them as “unconvincing” or as manipulated by big pharma even though you can’t understand them and have no scientific basis to dismiss them. Then you can repeat your tired demand for more studies, which in turn inevitably find the same result, after which you dismiss them again and ask for still more studies. If vaccine-preventable diseases come roaring back because your movement has frightened parents into not vaccinating, you can simply blame the government and pharmaceutical companies because they haven’t produced a vaccine to your imagined and unattainable standard of safety (i.e., absolutely 100% safe), rather than taking responsibility for own actions dissuading parents from vaccinating and accepting your share of the responsibility.

In fact, you are being completely disingenuous when you say that “if you give us a safe vaccine we’ll use it.” The reason is that you have made it very clear that no vaccine will ever be safe enough for you and that no amount of evidence will separate you from your antivaccine pseudoscience. Regardless of how much evidence is presented, how many times studies are repeated only to find the same result, to you your Google University “education” spent reading from the dark underbelly of antivaccinationist websites and blogs will always trump science. Always. Because of the arrogance of ignorance, you and your puppetmasters always find a way to move the goalposts back yet again and always will. Clearly, you no longer even care how much of a body count your activities may rack up.

Neither does TIME Magazine, apparently.

One last thing. Jenny describes her son Evan as having been handed to her “pre-vaccinated with a bandaid on his foot.” No vaccine that I’m aware of is given in the foot. The Band Aid® on Evan’s foot was almost certainly from routine blood tests done on all newborns via heel stick, like PKU screening. I think that quote alone shows you all you need to know about Jenny’s medical knowledge.

Posted in: Science and the Media, Vaccines

Leave a Comment (39) ↓

39 thoughts on “In Jenny McCarthy’s own words

  1. hatch_xanadu says:

    Good Lord. The Band-Aid one is new to me. It’s sort of reminiscent of those urban legends about folks who name their kids “Female” and the like because they thought the hospital ready-named the kid for them.

  2. hatch_xanadu says:

    And what is this “shadow” business? Is this Jenny thinking she’s being poetic with her hatemongering, or is that some new mystic nonsense to the tune of “indigo child”?

  3. revmatty says:

    One thing that drives me nuts about her situation in particular is her claims that the doctor grabbed her screaming baby and had McCarthy physically restrained while he vaccinated the child (she no longer acknowledges ever making those claims from what I understand) and a variety of other completely implausible claims about her medical treatment and the doctor (who remains unnamed) cannot contradict her story because of patient confidentiality. There is a doctor who treated her child and knows she is lying about it and possibly even has witnesses (e.g. nurses) who know she is lying about what happened with her son and they can’t expose her as the fraud that she is.

  4. weing says:

    I would tell any family of a child that dies or becomes disabled because of her crap that she might as well have murdered or disabled the child herself and they should act accordingly because the government won’t.

  5. tmac57 says:

    Any legal minds out there that could answer the question: Can McCarthy be sued for her part in popularizing this dangerous idea by someone who’s child has died or been injured by vaccine preventable disease?
    If so, please let it happen!

  6. Chris says:

    Dr. Gorski quoting the Time author…

    TIME: Your collaborator recommends that parents accept only the haemophilus influenzae type B (HIB) and tetanus vaccine for newborns and then think about the rest.

    Not pertussis? I was just looking at the numbers here:
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/G/cases&deaths.pdf

    … and noticed that pertussis has gone from under 10000 per year, to more than twice that in the last few years. Plus it shows an increase in deaths.

  7. What I find most disturbing is that many parents take Jenny McCarthy’s word over doctors and scientists. I think maybe parents are turned off when the science people just assume its obvious why we’re correct.

    My thoughts on the subject here:
    http://beyondtheshortcoat.wordpress.com/2009/04/01/hard-conversations-vaccines-and-autism-part-1/

  8. Kimbo Jones says:

    Wow.

    Autistic people are souless life-suckers and it’s ok for kids to get polio as long as she gets to make a (wrong) point about autism.

    Just…wow.

  9. weing says:

    tmac57,
    More likely the pediatrician will be sued by the parents for not doing enough to convince the parents to vaccinate their child. Had he really explained to them what could happen, they would have never refused vaccination.

  10. Michelle B says:

    Gorski, I admire your control.

    Why do these immoral nuts consider tetanus and HIB to be safe (I am concluding they regard these as safe since they suggest these should be given)? What sets these vaccines apart from the polio one, etc.?

    McCarthy will do all that is psychologically possible to prevent herself from accepting the harm she has done, the complete, inexcusable, without-any-merit-whatsoever damage she has accomplished.

  11. At first, I thought someone was kidding when the called me about the interview. Then I read it.

    Gorski, I have no clue how you kept from raging about this, but my guess is that you’re so professional, you couldn’t say what you wanted to really say. Like Jenny McCarthy is a…….. Never mind, I’ll take your lead.

    I just cannot believe that she thinks that children should get polio, as an acceptable alternative. Can we send her some pictures of children from the 40′s and 50′s?

  12. overshoot says:

    I just cannot believe that she thinks that children should get polio, as an acceptable alternative. Can we send her some pictures of children from the 40’s and 50’s?

    Wouldn’t matter in the least.

    Contrary to the rhetoric here, these Yahoos are actually fairly logical [1] in their way. They start with the idea that “vaccines are evil” and thus when you present them with something that conflicts with that axiomatic truth, it follows that what you’re presenting must be false.

    [1] Note that I wrote, “logical,” not “rational.”

  13. The Blind Watchmaker says:

    I am stunned.
    I shouldn’t be.
    But, I am stunned.

  14. John Snyder says:

    The ignorance and profound stupidity emanating from Jenny McCarthy is absolutely mind-boggling. Not because we haven’t seen this before, but because she is always given such a grand stage upon which to display it to the world. The more the world listens, the more we are doomed.

  15. weing says:

    Because of her stupidity and others of her ilk we may end up with a resurgence of measles and polio AND continue to have autism.

  16. coogan607 says:

    I’m with the Blind Watchmaker. Stunned.

    I had to explain to my wife why what Ms. McCarthy is saying is bad. Though I am a layman, I understand why a drop in the overall vaccination rate is bad for everyone. We can all say “not with my child” either pro-disease or pro-prevention, but the fewer children vaccinated means many more of us unwittingly become at risk.

  17. concernedparent says:

    I bet alot of you would feel VERY differently about vaccines if what happened to Jenny’s son after his vaccine happened to YOUR child. It is easy for you to be so judgemental until you have walked in another person’s shoes. Shame on you. Have any of you ever heard of VAERS??? There is actually a govt. program that gives millions of dollars to parents of vaccine damaged children. The GOVERNMENT admits that vaccines can cause damage in some children…NOT all, but some. The problem is you don’t know if your child will have a devastating reaction or not. It is truly a shot in the dark. Yes, the media says that some court cases have overruled a connection between vaccines and autism, but did you hear about the ones that won their cases! NO! (except for Poling) They don’t want you to hear that. Plus, most parents who deny or selectively vaccinate aren’t even concerned mostely about autism! Vaccines are a HUGE money making industry. You cannot deny that. Parents who research and decide not to inject their kids with monkey cells, aluminum, aborted fetal cells, etc. are NOT quacks…they are concerned parents who don’t trust BIG PHARMA. If you do your research, you will see that most of these diseases were on the decline BEFORE vaccines…because of clean water, better hygeine, etc.

    Do any of you know about serotype replacement??? When you vaccinate agains hib or pneumoccol, etc. , other bugs move in. Look at the statistics…no doubt the Hib vaccine works. Hib dropped dramatically and that is good, BUT other serotypes moved in and we had an over 700% increase in other Hi diseases. We also now have superbugs like MRSA, that are on the rise because of our love affair with overusing antibiotics and overvaccinating our kids. Hib meningitis went down, but not meningitis as a whole. DO YOUR RESEARCH and don’t just listen to what the govt tells you. Why are we scared of chicken pox??? Did you know that the vaccine was only created for immune compromised kids and when they didn’t make enough money on that they licensed it for ALL kids??? It doesn’t provide lasting immunity, doesn’t work that well anyway, and actually getting chicken pox provides lifetime immunity and strengthens the immune system. Measles can produce complications, but almost all kids got it and MOST did fine with it and their immune systems were strengthened. Anyway, you are going to believe what the govt studies that are backed by Merck tell you. I just wish you weren’t all so close minded and you could see that parents who selectively vaccinate or don’t vaccinate have done waaaaaay more research and thinking into what is being injected into their kids than most parents who just do what their doctors tell them to do.

  18. aalonzo says:

    Being personally involved with something that is as heart rending, tragic and debilitating as autism especially when it afflicts a loved one does change ones perspective. It also tends to make some people start to grasp at straws. I don’t say this facetiously, the stakes are high when it comes to your child. You become angry and look for some one to blame.
    Unfortunately these kinds of responses still cause people to unfairly blame people and in countries with less law and order than the U.S. people are still accused of witch craft and other nonsensical practices to explain why a child died or their cow has suddenly gone dry.
    This is why science has consistently improved life through out the world. It is why courts exist because at first blush it is easy to jump to conclusions. Throwing accusations is easy, backing them up with proof is difficult.
    You say that the government does not want you to know about the problems with vaccines? Here is a quote from the VAERS website.

    http://vaers.hhs.gov/
    This Web site provides a nationwide mechanism by which adverse events following immunization (AEFI) may be reported, analyzed and made available to the public. The VAERS Web site also provides a vehicle for disseminating vaccine safety-related information to parents/guardians, healthcare providers, vaccine manufacturers, state vaccine programs, and other constituencies.

    Hardly sounds like something that they are trying to keep secret. It is more likely that this is some thing that most people are not aware of until there is a need to know.

    You state some scary sounding things that are injected.

    monkey cells, aluminum, aborted fetal cells

    I could as easily say that Di hydrogen monoxide kills on average 175,000 children every year.
    http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/12/10/childhood.injuries.report/index.html

    How ever scary H2O sounds we are not going to eliminate it from our lives. We are going to learn how to deal with water and live with it safely and use it safely. Just as we have with the ingredients in vaccines.

    As far as Serotype Replacment goes it took me all of five minutes to find a research paper that stated the following.
    For Hib it states:
    Serotype replacement has not been detected since the introduction of Hib conjugate vaccines.
    no evidence of a causal link to Hib vaccination has been observed
    For pneumococcal it says:

    pneumococcal conjugate vaccine studies show considerable evidence of serotype replacement
    Which can sound frightening, so you need to keep reading.
    You find that the difference between carriage in vaccinated and nonvaccinated in the study that shows the largest difference is 36.5%, which is no where near 700%. Another study only showed a difference of 18%.
    Certainly concerning but not something you eliminate vaccines for. Infant mortality rates (infant < 1 year) were approximately 13.5% at the end of the 19th century and are now less than 1% in large part due to vaccination. Mortality for childeren between 1 year and five was considerably higher, also down in large part to vaccines.
    http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Bacterial+Vaccines+and+Serotype+Replacement:+Lessons+from+Haemophilus…-a065644861

    Do we really need a chickenpox vaccine?

    Adults comprise only 2% of chicken pox cases, but are responsible for 47.5% of deaths.

    How effective is the chicken pox vaccine?

    chicken pox vaccine is estimated to be 95% effective in children however, the vaccine fails to protect in up to 30% of adults with close exposure to someone with chicken pox, e.g., children in the same household

    http://www.all.org/article.php?id=10203

    I will however admit that the mortality rate for chicken pox is extremely low and mostly in adults and immune compromised individuals. It is something that needs to be studied more not summarily denounced.

    The data shows that every time parents have come forth with a concern, it has been addressed with multiple studies in different countries and from different organizations. When these fail to show any link concerned parents point to something else to do with the vaccines and the studies happen all over again. This has happened several times and NO link has been shown.
    Researchers have found genetic and prenatal links. The question to ask is, in all the condemnation of vaccines how much time and money has been used that could have been used on lines of research that have actually yielded results?
    How much harm has been done when frightened parents have listened to people who are amateur immunologists telling them about conclusions they have drawn from data that they are too poorly informed to interpret and have not vaccinated their children?
    We know for a fact that children have died from not getting vaccinated because of the fear of autism.
    And before any one quotes me one or two doctors who support this I will ask you to take a look around your job and tell me how many people you can name off hand who are not any good at theirs? Doctors are people too.
    That’s where the science comes in, many people try this and we look to get the same results. The ones who mess it up are washed out in the long run. Science is self correcting.
    The facts are that the VAST majority of researchers agree that vaccines have no causal link to autism.

    Where there is life, there is hope, and autism doesn’t kill.

    So my question to you concernedparent, why should I condem children around the world to certain death because of yours and other people completely unfounded and unproven belief the vaccines cause autism?

  19. concernedparent says:

    I saw where you got your answers to serotype replacement…the first article that came up on google. :o( Here are some published credible articles on hib and serotype replacement. No doubt hib vaccine works, I just do not think the overall number of meningitis has gone down since hib vaccine.

    >In addition to the proportional increase in cases of non-type b Haemophilus influenzae disease in the post-H. influenzae type b vaccine era, the incidence of invasive H. influenzae disease was found to be approaching the rates of H. influenzae type b disease that were documented in the prevaccine period. Fifty-six percent of invasive disease now occurs in individuals aged >10 years.

    PMID: 17516405 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]<

    Surveillance for Haemophilus influenzae meningitis cases was performed in Salvador, Brazil, before and after introduction of H. influenzae type b (Hib) immunization. The incidence of Hib meningitis decreased 69% during the 1-year period after initiation of Hib immunization (from 2.62 to 0.81 cases/100,000 person-years; P<.001). In contrast, the incidence for H. influenzae type a meningitis increased 8-fold (from 0.02 to 0.16 cases/100,000 person-years; P=.008). Pulsed-field gel electrophoretic analysis demonstrated that H. influenzae type a isolates belonged to 2 clonally related groups, both of which were found before Hib immunization commenced. Therefore, Hib immunization contributed to an increased risk for H. influenzae type a meningitis through selection of circulating H. influenzae type a clones. The risk attributable to serotype replacement is small in comparison to the large reduction in Hib meningitis due to immunization. However, these findings highlight the need to maintain surveillance as the use of conjugate vaccines expands worldwide.

    PMID: 12508153 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

    Your h2o example baffles me. We need water to live, we do not need vaccines to live. I didn’t get hib vaccine and I lived. I got chicken pox as a baby and I lived. My parents/in-laws got mumps, measles, rubella, etc. and lived.

    As for adults with cp…you are right in that it is a more serious illness in adults. This is an argument AGAINST the vaccine. If these adults would have had a chance to get the natural disease as a child, they would have lifelong immunity!!!! This would protect them from the illness as an adult! Now you have kids getting this vaccine and it is not that effective (I know families whose kids have been vaccinated and still got the disease), and it doesn’t provide lifelong immunity. They actually will admit they don’t know how long immunity will last with the vaccine…this leaves alot of adults who got the vaccine as children unprotected! Doesn’t make any sense when it is not that serious in healthy well nourished children.

    Prevnar:

    From a scientific standpoint in the Journal of the American Medical Association:

    “Conclusions:
    Streptococcus pneumoniae carriage, specifically of vaccine-type strains, is negatively associated with S aureus carriage in children. The implications of these findings in the pneumococcal vaccine era require further investigation.”

    Staph?

    As in, staphylococcus aureus?

    Give people Prevnar and it makes them have more STAPH???

    The most alarming of the replacement effects with Prevnar is how staph moves in when pneumo is taken out. Described here:

    “A trial with a 7-valent pneumococcal-conjugate vaccine in children with recurrent acute otitis media showed a shift in pneumococcal colonisation towards non-vaccine serotypes and an increase in Staphylococcus aureus-related acute otitis media after vaccination”

    “These findings suggest a natural competition between colonisation with vaccine-type pneumococci and S aureus, which might explain the increase in S aureus-related otitis media after vaccination. “

    How does it work?

    The bactericidal activity of Streptococcus pneumoniae toward Staphylococcus aureus is mediated by hydrogen peroxide. Catalase eliminated this activity. Pneumococci grown anaerobically or genetically lacking pyruvate oxidase (SpxB) were not bactericidal, nor were nonpneumococcal streptococci. These results provide a possible mechanistic explanation for the interspecies interference observed in epidemiologic studies.

    S pneumo poisons staph with hydrogen peroxide.

    So what does that mean?

    This study concludes:

    Conclusions
    Streptococcus pneumoniae carriage, specifically of vaccine-type strains, is negatively associated with S aureus carriage in children. The implications of these findings in the pneumococcal vaccine era require further investigation.

    You can’t lock out pneumo with the vaccine without opening a window for staph. The change in the “ecosystem” extends beyond those who are vaccinated with Prevnar, as well. Because of herd immunity, the phenomenon can be seen in the whole population.

    This study says:

    If the association is causal and acquisition of S. pneumoniae eradicates S. aureus carriage, then use of pneumococcal vaccines may eliminate the “protective” effect of S. pneumoniae against S. aureus carriage and an increase in S. aureus carriage will follow. Increased S. aureus otitis media has been observed among vaccinees in a pneumococcal conjugate vaccine randomized trial (23). Whether the current increase in severe community-acquired S. aureus infections, including methicillin-resistant S. aureus (6), is partially caused by the recent introduction of the pneumococcal conjugate vaccine is yet to be determined.

    “Now, I don’t know about you guys, but I’d say causing or contributing to the CA-MRSA epidemic is one heck of an adverse event. Confirming and determining the role these vaccines played in the staph epidemic should be a top priority.”…taken from inside vaccines website.

    The above studies are cited at the website inside vaccines. This website if very credible and cites statements/articles from scientific journals, cdc and even vaccine inserts. Have you ever read the warnings on vaccine inserts?? I am also saying that the govt. would never want to admit that vaccines are related to autism, staph, etc. Can you imagine the ramifications if they admitted their role in any of this.

    If you think staph isn’t bad, well several children who died of the flu this year were also noted as having a concurrent staph infection…have you heard of mrsa?? It is scary stuff.

    You say we know for a fact that children have died from not getting vaccinated…do you really? How do you know those kids would not have gotten the disease had they been vaccinated?? Almost half of the cases of hib had been vaccinated to some extent. Children still get cp after being vaccinated, still get whooping cough, still get measles…vaccines are never 100%…even the govt. will tell you that. How many kids have died because of vaccines and written off as sids…what about the kids who died from the smallpox vaccine, what about kids who now have autism or seizure disorders for the rest of their life…what about guillian-barre syndrome? Both sides have risks and parents have to research, pray and make the best decisions they can with the amount of knowledge they have.

    I am not anti vaccine…I am anti one size fits all when it comes to medicine! I am also pro freedom. Pro parents deciding what is best for their children and not the govt.

  20. storkdok says:

    @concernedparent

    “I bet alot of you would feel VERY differently about vaccines if what happened to Jenny’s son after his vaccine happened to YOUR child. It is easy for you to be so judgemental until you have walked in another person’s shoes. Shame on you.”

    I’m assuming you think vaccines caused her son’s autism. The evidence is clear it did not.

    A lot of us have children with autism. We do not recognize Jenny’s self-appointed “expertise” in autism nor in vaccines. She does not speak for the majority of parents, she is ignorant, and if she shouts her ignorance to the world with such arrogance, she deserves to be gobsmacked with science and some (alot of) sarcasm.

    I’m more “concerned” about the very real threat of preventable diseases taking more children’s and adult’s lives, not the pseudoscience of anti-vaxxers or their “feelings”. Don’t kid yourself, you spout anti-vaccine sentiments cloaked in “I’m not anti-vaccine I’m pro-parent” language.

  21. HCN says:

    Aw, gee, “concernedparent”… What happened to Jenny’s son happened to my son has a newborn BEFORE he got any vaccine!

    He also had a seizure and ended up in the hospital due to an actual (now vaccine preventable) disease!

    He also has a severe genetic heart condition, that would make the real diseases very bad for him.

    Do you care about those of us with medically fragile children? Or what it is like to be in the hospital with a kid who cannot communicate? Or are you of the ilk who have told me that only “unhealthy” children suffer with the real diseases, like the life of my child is not worth as much as their “perfect” child because of his medical history? (by the way, measles, mumps, pertussis, tetanus and others do not really care what your kid eats, or if they are “healthy” — they injure and damage “healthy” kids too!)

    Get off your high horse and get real! Jenny McCarthy is not doing us any favors. She and her Generation Endangerment friends are causing more damage by focusing on the vaccine non-issue (while the very real and very dangerous diseases are coming back! Hib is a very real and very deadly disease, I have met parents who have had children permanently disabled, and one who died from it)… while ignoring the real issues: like education, school to work transition, and employment support.

    How much has Handley, McCarthy and her boy toy Carrey given in real money to research? Has Generation Rescue/Engangerment spent more on adverstisement or research? From the perspective of this parent, they are a cause of problems.

    If you need a reminder of what the real issues are, print out these posters and put them in front of your computer screen:
    http://aspergersquare8.blogspot.com/2009/03/autism-awareness-month-posters.html

  22. aalonzo says:

    After reading down 120 responses in another thread on this site I’ve come to a conclusion. Much like every other non-sensical belief in the history of humanity, those who believe that vaccines do more harm than good hyper focus on the drawbacks of using vaccines.
    No one denies them, the difference is that those who argue against vaccines deny and ignore the numbers of people that have been helped.
    The over arching fact is that the infant mortality rate has gone from approximately 13% to under 1%. The worlds population has quadrupled in the last hundred years due to a combination of better food growing and vaccines. Any problems these things have generated have obviously been off set by the gains by a gross margin.
    I can tell who at heart is anti-vaccine because they never seem to acknowledge these numbers, and knowing that informs me not to bother. It is a far better use of my time and resources to talk to people who are hearing these scary things and can still be talked to.
    I believe for many in this anti-vaccination mind set this is a matter of faith. I don’t remember who said this, but here’s a quote.
    “You cannot convince some one from a point of view using facts and logic that did not arrive there using the same.”

    I’m sure I’ve mangled the quote but you get the idea.

    So concernedparent, while I believe that as a parent you need to make the choice for your child not the government, I also believe that you have to go with the most current and best science when making your decision, as interpreted by the people who have spent their lives studying these things.

    After all, if I read lots of things in my free time about dentistry, would you take my word over your dentists, or over thousands of dentists who have all come to the same conclusions?

  23. concernedparent says:

    >>Among 33 industrialized nations, the United States is tied with Hungary, Malta, Poland and Slovakia with a death rate of nearly 5 per 1,000 babies, according to a new report. Latvia’s rate is 6 per 1,000.<>So concernedparent, while I believe that as a parent you need to make the choice for your child not the government, I also believe that you have to go with the most current and best science when making your decision, as interpreted by the people who have spent their lives studying these things.<<

    Like the people who do these studies and prove vaccines are safe…the ones who are monetarily tied to the parm. companies? Look closely at who is funding these studies…you will be surprised. There are MANY medical journals that talk about serotype replacement and the dangers of vaccines. I don’t think you can find one dr. or scientist that will say vaccines are 100% safe. The next time your dr. wants to vaccinate your child, ask them to sign a waver like they ask you to sign. Make them agree to paying for and being responsible for any damages your child might incur as a result of the vaccines. They will 100% decline to sign it…but you MUST sign a waver saying they are not responsible for any adverse reactions your child has.

    I think vaccines are a sacred cow in our culture today and any celebrity, dr or parent that will not bow down and dares to disagree and actually do some research will be crucified on that altar. (like Jenny McCarthy)

  24. storkdok says:

    Is concernedparent a “concern troll”? I’m still learning these terms.

  25. weing says:

    I don’t know, I’m still learning too. Although he/she just tried to disguise an underlying antivax stance. That is an intriguing idea about the waiver but it should go both ways. The physician will pay for any damages and the patient and child will pay for any future earnings for not getting the disease.

  26. Dacks says:

    “My parents/in-laws got mumps, measles, rubella, etc. and lived. ”

    And that is why they adopted vaccination for you (and your spouse) as soon as it became available. BTW, they certainly had some pretty bad luck to have gotten measles, mumps, rubella AND etc.)

  27. Jurjen S. says:

    Hear, hear, Dacks. I’m 38; I had mumps, measles, and chicken pox twice (though not rubella), and I gladly had my son vaccinated for the lot. Having those diseases is not a life-enriching experience, to put it mildly, and I’d much prefer to spare him going through that.

  28. concernedparent says:

    “There are non so blind as those that will not see”. I am amazed at how in the dark so many of you are and how you blindly trust your doctors and the big pharm. companies. Do you know how many years they knew cigarette smoking was bad for people before they let the public know…and why? because there was major money to be lost. Do you know how long these vaccines are studied before they are given to the public and that side effects and even deaths in the trials are written off as a coincidence or, worse, as a necessary sacrifice for the masses? Children are injured everyday and many die because of these vaccines, and their lack of studies. Do you know how long the gardasil vaccines was studied…it was pushed through so fast it would make your head spin. Do you know how many girls have died or been injured because of this vaccine??? Do your research. Big Pharm does not have your child’s best interest at heart…it is a money making industry…A MULTI BILLION DOLLAR INDUSTRY. America is the MOST vaccinated country in the world. Why did our vaccines triple since the 1980′s??? WHAT is causing the rise in childhood cancers, autism, allergies, food allergies, diabetes, etc. The health of a society is not measured by incidence of infectious disease, but by chronic disease and our children have a TON of chronic diseases that were unheard of when I was a kid.
    Oh, and good for you getting measles, mumps and cp!! You now have lifelong immunity!!! Your immune system is stronger. Did you die? Did you develop autism?? I am guessing not. You were a lucky one. These vaccines do not provide lifelong immunity and we will see the repercussions of our generation not having lifelong immunity soon enough. I breastfeed my kids and I cannot pass on immunity to measles to them because I never had it. Viruses are very smart and they continue to mutate. Now we have superbugs that are resistant to antibiotics. What are we going to do about that? You can’t use antibiotics for everything under the sun and not expect consequences. You can’t vaccinate for everything using all kinds of toxic ingredients and not expect to have consequences. We will never get rid of every disease. We have reduced hib, now there are more cases of hia and hif than hib. How come yall are not running around afraid of hia or hif? How come you are not mad at the pharm. companies for not creating a vaccine for hia or hif, which also cause meningitis in kids and can kill??? Come on?? They should have a vaccine for those diseases because our kids or adults can get them and be hurt. What about the 90 something other strains of diseases that cause meningitis that we DO NOT have a vaccine for? Are you guys living in fear in your house because of the chance of catching those??? You should be if you believe without vaccines you will die!!! You are not living in fear because the media and the pharm. companies have not instilled fear into you because they have NO MONEY TO GAIN!!!! Because there is not a vaccine. Get real people. I would love to see your faces if the govt. told you you that YOU had to go out and get 56 vaccines and the ingredients were questionable and some people claimed they had been injured by them or their loved ones died from them. OR about the govt. telling you you HAVE to take a medicine that you don’t think you need and could have side effects. This is AMERICA and we are supposed to be free!! And a side note…dr’s do not know everything and they know next to nothing about the immune system and how it works and how vaccines work. Ask your ped what the ingredients are in the vaccines…he will not know. They get like 4 hours of vaccine studies in school and they know what Merck tells them. An example is my 3 older kids were fully vaccinated and they gave them dpt and oral polio and told me it was safe. When I went to vaccinate my 4th, I wondered why he wasn’t getting dtp but dtap and why he wasn’t getting oral polio but polio in a shot form. Guess What??? The dr told me that dpt was causing deaths and seizures and the oral polio was causing POLIO!!!!! WHAT???? So much for thinking they know what they are talking about. We were lucky but I guess the kids with seizures, polio or those who died were not so lucky. The only cases of polio in the last so many years in the us were because of your precious VACCINE. Look at the charts, polio was declining big time before the vaccine. I’m tired, I know none of this will make any of you open your eyes and at least do YOUR OWN research. Most anti vaxer’s and selective/delyaed vaxers don’t tell people that vaccines will kill their children like vaxers tell us that our kids will die if we don’t vaccinate…we tell people to research!! Make your own decisions and do not judge other parents who are trying to do what they feel is the very best for their children…whether they decide to vaccinate or not vaccinate.

  29. concernedparent says:

    I will not post anymore. I know yall are not interested in a selective/non vaxer’s viewpoint. I am truly not trying to judge anyone for their choices. I am just tired of being judged for mine. We are all parents trying to do the best we can. We will make mistakes in all kinds of ways. We have to research, pray and go with our gut instinct in what we feel is the best for our children. I think we all want what is best for our kids. Vaxers and non vaxers. It just seems that vaxers can be very judgemental about others who have come to different conclusions than they have. Just remember that MOST non vaxers used to be very pro vax until they believe that a vaccine injured one of their children. Then they start to question what they believed in and trusted and they start doing research. This is what happened to me with my 4th child. I wish I could go back and vaccinate without question. Ignorance truly was bliss.

  30. Chris says:

    “concernedparent” said

    An example is my 3 older kids were fully vaccinated and they gave them dpt and oral polio and told me it was safe. When I went to vaccinate my 4th, I wondered why he wasn’t getting dtp but dtap and why he wasn’t getting oral polio but polio in a shot form. Guess What??? The dr told me that dpt was causing deaths and seizures and the oral polio was causing POLIO!!!!!

    Actually I found the statistics for that earlier this week at http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/ss5201a1.htm … the numbers were “However, the risk of vaccine-associated paralytic poliomyelitis (VAPP) was estimated to be approximately 1 case per 2.4 million doses distributed“.

    Yeah, big deal.

    What you have noticed is that the vaccine schedule and the vaccines themselves are always being looked at and evaluated. Basically, the people who know what they are doing are asking the same questions you are… but they have the expertise to make valid decisions. Not the emotional ones that you seem to have.

  31. Calli Arcale says:

    Look at the charts, polio was declining big time before the vaccine.

    No, *deaths* from polio were declining big time. The main reason was the invention of the iron lung, which kept polio victims breathing long enough to (in many cases) get over the disease, though some battled life-long paralysis, some later succumbed to post-polio disease, and others are still in iron lungs today. (They represent a small group, revolving mostly around the difficulty of finding spare parts for their iron lungs, now that the devices have been entirely replaced by ventilators in hospitals.) Polio itself was not declining. More people were surviving, but this was not always the kind of surviving that would be a fair alternative to a very dubious risk of autism.

    An example is my 3 older kids were fully vaccinated and they gave them dpt and oral polio and told me it was safe. When I went to vaccinate my 4th, I wondered why he wasn’t getting dtp but dtap and why he wasn’t getting oral polio but polio in a shot form. Guess What??? The dr told me that dpt was causing deaths and seizures and the oral polio was causing POLIO!!!!! WHAT????

    Why do you think IPV (the “shot form” vaccine) was created? Because the oral vaccine carried a known risk of contracting a much less virulent (though still contagious) form of polio.

    This is not evidence that vaccines are unsafe; this is evidence of the system working to constantly improve them. Even the oral polio vaccine has only a very small risk of giving you actual polio. (FluMist, the nasal flu vaccine, has the same problem, but is still used for those who cannot or will not receive the injected one.)

    The oral polio vaccine is still given, to those who cannot or will not receive IPV for whatever reason. The usual reason is financial; it’s the weapon of choice against polio in the developing world, where low-level immunity exists due to presence of wild polio and the oral strain will thus be less harmful (because it can’t compete against the wild strains), and where the cost concern is big enough to trump the safety concern. I’m not saying safety isn’t a concern; it’s just that if the choice is between vaccinating enough to get herd immunity via the oral vaccine and only vaccinating maybe 20% with IPV because it costs more, then it’s a no-brainer — society will be better served by the oral vaccine.

    The vaccine schedule, and the various vaccines available, will constantly change. This is because no matter how safe and effective it is, it can always be improved upon. More targeted vaccines allow less antigen to be used, because they focus on the essential proteins in the pathogen and don’t waste your immune system’s effort on unimportant ones. They also improve the ability to counter evolution by targeting proteins less likely to mutate. More antigens get grouped into a single shot so as to reduce the overall vaccine risk as well as making it much more practical to complete the course. Egg albumin gets phased out, allowing those with egg allergies to get a given vaccine. Weakened live viruses get replaced with inactivated ones, which are much less risky, but require different strategies to stimulate the appropriate immune response. The body of data for various vaccines increases daily, giving epidemiologists a better idea of what the ideal vaccination schedule really is. And so on.

    Don’t be afraid when doctors change their practice in response to better tools becoming available. Be afraid when they don’t.

  32. Calli Arcale says:

    BTW, concernedparent, don’t get us wrong. We don’t trust the pharmaceutical establishment. They’re in it for profit, and the temptation to fool around with data is very great. That’s why they need to be watched, and why the FDA was created. The FDA is not as strong or effective as it used to be; it has had its teeth pulled in the name of being “open minded” of unproven practices.

    Here, what we are interested in is science. We do not trust a study just because Merck funded it, anymore than we trust a study by Generation Rescue. It’s the *science* that matters, not the messenger, and it is on the science that it should be judged.

  33. Mjhavok says:

    She is an attention seeking nut.

  34. concernedparent says:

    Mjhavok,

    That is one intelligent response! I guess when you have nothing intelligent to add to the conversation, you revert to name calling. What are you, in 3rd grade?? LOLOL

  35. eblonk says:

    Concernedparent

    The name alone insinuates that parent always knows best. Well, in that case, I’m the parent of an autistic son. Then again, he has high-functioning autism, so you might argue that doesn’t really count.

    I wish I had the time on my hands to deconstruct your lenghty posts. You have the advantage there, size does matter. Paragraphs upon paraghraphs with non sequiters, insinuations (money is made in the pharmaceutical industry, THUS it cannot be trusted), false analogies: a feast for those with a taste for dismantling logical fallacies.

    So let me counter it with another logical fallacy, why not. I am the father of an autistic child and a neurotypical child. I see no evidence that vaccinnes had any effect, they both had the makings of what they are now from day 1, it becoming more apparent while they became older. The difference seems to be that the autistic one was born naturally but barely so: just as the doctors were about to get him out themselves, there he was. He was overdue already, so it was edging of oxygen shortage. Now, I’ll pull a McCarthy on you: I’m a parent, so I know better than any doctor out there. Therefore, I am right and vaccinnes do not cause autism. On a side note: money is being made with homeopathy and other CAM, so it is evil.

    That felt strange, making baseless claims with logical fallacies. It is very addictive, I can see how CAM, anti-vaccination, McCarthyism and all that can really suck you in. Back to normal now. I need to shower.

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