Modern shamanism—naturopathy for hypertension
I’m a primary care physician. What I, other internists, pediatricians, and family medicine docs do is prevent and treat common diseases. When we get to diseases that require more specialized care, we refer to our specialist colleagues. There is a movement afoot to broaden the role of naturopaths to make them primary care doctors. The big difference between naturopaths and real primary care physicians (PCPs) is that naturopaths haven’t gone to medical school, completed a post-graduate residency program, and taken their specialty boards. Why is this important? If a naturopath wants to be a PCP, then they must provide the same services as other PCPs. They do not. What, you don’t believe me? The thing is, naturopaths have an incorrect understanding of human biology and do not understand how this is applied in a science-based fashion to prevent and treat human disease.
Naturopathic “physicians” claim that “the human body has an innate healing ability” and that they “teach their patients to use diet, exercise, lifestyle changes and cutting edge natural therapies to enhance their bodies’ ability to ward off and combat disease.”
I must admit that I don’t get it. As a primary care physician (the real kind) I talk to my patients every day about diet, exercise, and lifestyle changes. I’m not sure what “natural therapies” are—all of the medications that I prescribe are “natural”. What is the opposite of natural? Unnatural? Supernatural?
As a primary care physician, I see a lot of common, serious problems, like diabetes and hypertension, and coronary heart disease. Coronary heart disease (CHD) is the biggest killer of Americans, and hypertension (high blood pressure) and diabetes are two of the primary causes of CHD. The next most common killer of Americans is cancer. If naturopaths want to be allowed to practice primary care medicine, they better be prepared to diagnose and treat these conditions in a way that is proven to help patients.
Let’s take a look at the website of their main professional organization, and see what they recommend for, for instance, hypertension. I’m choosing hypertension because their website doesn’t have a section on diabetes or on disease prevention.
First I’ll tell you a little bit about how doctors approach hypertension. High blood pressure leads to heart attacks, strokes, kidney failure, and blindness. Untreated hypertension is one of the biggest health problems in North America. Because hypertension is so common and has so many disabling and deadly consequences, it has been studied quite well. We have learned over the years which type of patients benefit from which blood pressure goals and from which interventions. For example, the ALLHAT trial was released a few years ago. This study followed tens of thousands of people with hypertension and found that a simple and inexpensive intervention (a thiazide-type diuretic pill) was very effective at preventing serious coronary heart disease.
When I tell a patient that they should start a blood pressure medication, they are often hesitant. They often ask if there is another way to lower blood pressure. This has been studied as well. For example the DASH diet has been found to lower blood pressure significantly (from about 4-7 mmHg for the systolic pressure). If I have a patient with mild hypertension, this may do it, if they can stick to the diet. However, most of my patients don’t have stage I hypertension (a systolic BP from 140-159), and even in those who do, the gains from following the DASH diet are minimal. If I get a patient to really stick to it, maybe I can get their BP from 158 down to 152. That’s not very good. Most practicing PCPs know that diet and exercise will achieve good blood pressure goals in a minority of patients. Still, when it’s safe, and the needed goals are modest, we recommend it as first line therapy, especially for pre-hypertension.
In summary, the evidence tells us that we must lower blood pressures to save lives, and that diet and exercise are good enough in a small percentage of patients. We screen for hypertension and its complications, and then prescribe diet, exercise, and/or medications to lower our patients’ risk of becoming ill.
What do naturopaths have to offer? It’s not clear to me from reading their literature how they approach screening, but let’s say they have identified a patient with hypertension.
The website of their national organization gives some good information about what hypertension is and why we should care. What it doesn’t do is explain how they will effectively treat it.
To treat hypertension, naturopaths might counsel patients on eating a healthier diet. Following the DASH (Dietary Approaches to Stop Hypertension) diet includes lowering sodium intake and eating nutrient-rich foods like fresh fruits and vegetables, low-fat dairy, and eating a diet rich in potassium, magnesium, calcium, and fiber. Again, prominent national studies have shown the DASH diet has been shown to be as effective as drugs at reducing blood pressure.
Well, real doctors make those same recommendations. The last sentence is simply false. DASH is not as effective as medication for many hypertensive patients. For some, sure, for others, not at all.
Supplements are also a low-cost and effective way to reduce high blood pressure. Natural diuretics, dandelion and parsley can be used to control blood pressure, although evidence suggests they must be taken in high doses to be effective, (Alternative Medicine Review, 2002). Increasing potassium consumption has shown to reduce the risk of stroke in patients with hypertension by 41 percent (Journal of the American Nutraceutical Association, Houston study, 2002).
Let’s review our goal here. Our goal is to treat hypertension in such a way as to reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease and death. This needs to be done in a way that is proven to work, and is tolerable to the patient. Here, rather than recommend medications that have been proven in large, randomized controlled trials to not only lower blood pressure to to actually achieve these goals, they recommend “natural diruetics”. I also reviewed the article that is (barely) cited. The article is a review of hypertension and the naturopathic approach to its treatment. It is frankly quite frightening. It reviews the biology, and then makes fantastical claims. For example, it ironically compares various nutrients in their ability to “mimic” various classes of blood pressure medication. Then, rather than comparing the efficacy of the supplement to the known efficacy of the drug, it simply recommends using the supplement. If a real doctor did this it would be called “malpractice”.
I can find no naturopathic references that explain what the “doctor” should do when the unproven concoctions fail to control blood pressure. Does this mean that their potions work on everyone, that they have no failures? More likely, they have nothing to offer. Perhaps the good ones refer to a real doctor at this point.
This brings up an important question. If a naturopath wants to be a primary care physician, and yet must refer patients to a real doctor for common problems, what’s the point? A PCP must be able to effectively treat common conditions such as diabetes and hypertension. If they can’t, they’re in the wrong field.
There is no justification for allowing naturopaths to be primary care physicians, and if what they print is accurate, there is no justification for them to treat any patient for any condition. Naturopathy is modern shamanism, and should be banned.
Posted in: Science and Medicine
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vargkill,
I’ve already told you: the onus is on your to prove your ideas, not on us to disprove your ideas. If we’re going to play that game, I would like you to disprove the notion that fairies cured you.
To make you happy, here is a study I found on Pubmed. It’s a review, but that should be acceptable. Here is the citation: J Perioper Pract. 2008 Dec;18(12):543-51. Here is the abstract:
“This literature review sets out to investigate the effectiveness of acupressure and acupuncture in preventing and managing postoperative nausea and vomiting (PONV) in adult patients. PONV is problematic, affecting patient satisfaction, delayed discharge and even patient re-admission. Current treatment of PONV constitutes a variety of drug therapies, which are only partially effective. With the integration of complementary and alternative medicines in healthcare, this review examined 10 research studies investigating the use of acupressure and acupuncture in treating PONV. Three studies found acupressure to be effective in preventing PONV. However, population samples were small and the research designs had numerous anomalies. Overall the article suggests that acupuncture and acupressure are ineffective in preventing and managing PONV in adult patients. Further investigation of the effectiveness of acupressure and acupuncture, combined with current drug therapies, using well designed and adequately powered studies is needed. Published studies predominantly examined the use of P6 as the pressure point. Further studies should examine other ‘acupoint’ sites, to ascertain whether these are effective dependent upon the operative site.”
Only three out of ten studies demonstrated any positive effect from acupuncture/pressure, and those weren’t very good studies (small sample size, and experimental “anomalies”). This study indicates that acupuncture/pressure doesn’t work to prevent nausea, which I believe is something is it proposed to especially work for.
cheglabratjoe
“I’ve already told you: the onus is on your to prove your ideas, not on us to disprove your ideas. If we’re going to play that game, I would like you to disprove the notion that fairies cured you”.
You’re subscribing to the notion that it is in fact ok for you
to ask me to prove my claims, yet me asking you to prove yours
is completly absurd? What how would you expect any normal
person to respond to that kinda thinking?
Now one thing i need to point out is that the study in which
you refrenced is no more large scale then the study i posted
that link to about back pain. Small scare and not enough research. So then how is that anymore convincing then my
argument? You seem to be comparing apples and apples here.
Also i might add, since you guys seem to be on such a large
scale crusade here against CAM, why noy conduct a large scale
research project to once and for all silence all of the CAM folks?
That was my original challange! You guys are the doctors!
You are the ones on a personal crusade here, not me. I never
once bashed your medical practice on here. I only stated that
CAM seemed to have worked for me and that the person i go
to seems to be very very good at what he does. I never once
said that SBM is evil and does not work.
So for a bunch of doctors whom are most likely to be presumed
intelligent, i cannot understand why it should be up to me to
have to prove that CAM works. If i could prove beyond a shadow
of a doubt then trust me i would. The difference between me
and most people on here is that since you are a doctor/scientist, that would make you smarter then me in this field
hence making me easily silenced.
I assume the general concenses is that you didn’t personally
like that challenge so therefor its all the sudden up to me to
prove anything beyond my own personal expirence. Which is
utterly impossible considering there are studies to suggest
that acupressure works and studies to suggest it does not.
So who truly wins here? Even if you can fully debunk acupressure which i can guarentee you cannot, it still does
not change what i witnessed with my own 2 eyes.
Let me ask you, if GOD himself came to you right now and told
you something, yet a bunch of people told you it was some kinda mind trick or some bullcrap, would that change the fact
that you seen what you seen? Would a book on evolution be
able to help you realize you did not see what you seen because
it suggests we are all just a matter of chance?
Get my point? Some things in life cannot be measured by science
or better yet, might be just a bit more difficult to measure.
Sorry for my type-o in that last post… Typed that way to fast.
What kind of studies would we have to do to prove that fairies did not cure your ailments? You and the rest of your CAM crowd are the ones making claims. You want us to accept your claims without any proof, just your say so? Sorry. Do you expect me to believe a pharmaceutical company’s claim that its medication normalizes blood pressure and peripheral vascular resistance because it says so? If I say I don’t believe it, they come back saying I have to prove my claim that it doesn’t, and since I can’t or won’t, then I have to accept it. Yeah, that would really work on me. Not!
Anyway, who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes?
weing
Again, you are the doctors not me. Im not the pharmaceutical
company. If they tell you a pill comes out they have more credit
then i do right? So as a doctor you should easily be able to debunk what im trying to say.
And in case you forgot, i believe this blog is all about trying to
debunk CAM folks. So then why are you not doing something or
posting links for me to read to try and convince me that CAM
is crap? All your doing is making stupid statements as if im some
scientist or some pharmaceutical employee trying to prove something to the MD community. Im a nobody who decided
medicine was not his calling in life. How hard can it be for you
to prove me and other people who practice or believe in CAM
that it is, in the terms of some folks on here “quackery”?
You seem like a well rounded educated man. So what i am asking is not hard. You have more of an ability then me to prove
yourself. I dont have access to labs, or other people in the MD
or science community like you folks do. So use your tools to your
advanted and finally silence the CAM folks!
“Anyway, who are you going to believe? Me or your lying eyes”?
What else do i have? Want me to go and video tape a session
with Mr Wu? What else can i do? Hold him at gun point and make him teach the world how he does it? I never said you personally or anyone has to believe me for that matter. But you
are asking me to spend the time to look up some kinda websites on studies over my claims.
Again lets get a study together to finally once and for all
see if its bullcrap or now. Im willing to be proactive here are
any of you?
Vargkill,
Humans make statements about the world. Some are true; some are mostly true; some are partly true; some are false.
The set of true claims is small compared to the other sets added together. In fact, the number of false claims about the world might be infinite, as anyone can make up a crazy idea.
So you see, if humans must disprove false claims, they will never have time for any fun. For this reason, the burden of proof always rests on the shoulders of the person asserting the claim.
There’s one exception: stating that a claim is unproven requires no proof. All claims are initially “unproven” until someone provides supporting evidence.
Dr Benway
Again, and it really pains me to have to keep saying this
over and over again… There really seems to be a lack of
reader comprehension going on here, which i find sad
coming from a room full of educated people…
the prestige of the all mighty doctor is slowly starting to expire
like a candle in a soft breeze… no longer illuminated by the
fact that your ability to understand what i have writen over and
over again is simply lost in the simplest of laymen’s terms…
As a matter of fact, your lack of reader comprehension is so
gross that it most of you have proven to be the coup de grâce
of this conversation.
Kinda sad since im speaking in
such a simple manner, hence not using big words and not
writing on a college education level. This is purly done so nothing gets lost in translation, but i see that has done me
no good thus far.
The only thing you guys on here keep doing is firing back with
cheap, defensive rehtoric in an attempt to be the all mighty
winner of the conversation. Im not asking any of you to discuss the theory of relativity. Im asking you to again, prove what i
expirenced was bullcrap, or better in your terms, “quackery”.
Again, when did i say i believed that every form of alternative
medicine worked? When did i say that i knew for a fact that
it did. I for one can admit that there is a possibility that i am
wrong, but since i personally went through it myself, it made
me ask myself a lot of questions.
“So you see, if humans must disprove false claims, they will never have time for any fun. For this reason, the burden of proof always rests on the shoulders of the person asserting the claim”.
The claim was made long before i started posting on this blog.
The claim was made that alternative medicine practioners
are bunk. I seen no evidence that offers any proof or any that
in fact i can personally count on. So yes Dr Benway, i guess
the burden of proof rests on your shoulders and every other
doctor on here who claims that my expirence was bogus and
everyone else who so dear believe in this “quackery” form
of medicine. So please continue to bloviate, and contridict yourself in the process of trying to get me the “quackery” believer to bare the burden of proof. Considering this jamboree
was happening long before i came along. You’re all asserting
the claim so i think its time to man up!
“There’s one exception: stating that a claim is unproven requires no proof. All claims are initially “unproven” until someone provides supporting evidence”.
Im waiting Dr…
As stated previously, lets get some kinda research going here.
Lets get all the tests going, and once and for all lay this demon
to rest. Anyone in? Im sure it would be a simple yet complex
study, then you could silence people like me!
“The claim was made that alternative medicine practioners are bunk.”
CAM is a set of unproven therapies.
“Bunko” is “A swindle in which you cheat at gambling or persuade a person to buy worthless property.”
Insofar as a practitioner misrepresents some unproven therapy as proven, that practitioner may be deemed a bunko artist.
“So yes Dr Benway, i guess the burden of proof rests on your shoulders and every other doctor on here who claims that my expirence was bogus and everyone else who so dear believe in this “quackery” form of medicine.”
No, the onus remains upon your shoulders to provide evidence in support of your claim that a particular faith healer can diagnose physical problems without taking a history of doing an exam.
Until you provide evidence, your claim remains unproven.
Dr. Benway:
What is so difficult with the concept that if you make a claim that you must provide the evidence?
Some suggested reading with reference to the evidence:
Snake Oil Science
and
Trick or Treatment
They are both available at most American libraries (unlike Ben Goldacre’s “Bad Science”, which I am going to have to pay more for to order from Europe!).
Once you grock the onus concept, vargkill, you will advance a degree in logic-fu. You will enjoy mental, social, and political power you did not have before.
Good lord!!
How am i supposed to do this? Are you going to come to WI
and challange the guy?
As i said before, you claim, wait… you all claim on this blog
that CAM is fake, so where is the research? Why am i being
asked to provide so much but you refuse to provide anything
to me?
Chris
We can read book all day man, Im asking these doctors
to go and prove this with a study.
Again and for the last damn time.
What can do to get this research going? Lets show the world
throught this research that its a waste of time.
Ok i almost forgot to add…
There are so many books that support acupressure and so many
that do not. That is why i will not read your book suggestions Chris, but i will keep them in mind.
Im asking the doctors to do something that im sure will
benefit all of mankind. Come on lets do this thing and we
can watch your enemies prove their own undoing.
@Chris on 26 Apr 2009 at 1:02 am Concerning Goldacre’s “Bad Science.”
I bought an inexpensive copy through Amazon under “new and used”. The vendor said “ships from Delaware” but it came by Royal post directly from the UK. As I write, there are two inexpensive copies listed, as well as some unbearably expensive ones.
Note: There is a new edition of the book containing a chapter that was held-back because it described ongoing (at the time) litigation. So, you could wait until Amazon lists the new edition, or, buy the old ed. and download the added chapter (free) from http://www.badscience.net/2009/04/matthias-rath-steal-this-chapter/
@vargkill on 26 Apr 2009 at 1:36 am wrote “There are so many books that support acupressure and so many
that do not. That is why i will not read your book suggestions Chris …”
“A man’s gotta know his limitations.” So, why do you argue with people who have the wherewithal to understand the subject and form proper conclusions (and have done so)?
“There are so many books that support acupressure and so many
that do not. That is why i will not read your book suggestions Chris, but i will keep them in mind.
Im asking the doctors to do something that im sure will
benefit all of mankind. Come on lets do this thing and we
can watch your enemies prove their own undoing.”
I’ll get on that topic as soon as I convince my kids that Santa, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny are not real.
A question for you. If you won’t read the book suggestions that Chris gave you because of the above reason, why would you read and accept what we would write? What’s the difference?
Also, the books I suggested actually go into how to read a study and how to determine if it is biased, or has much weight. They would both help determine who one should actually get valid information from.
The kicker is that Snake Oil Science includes a section on how to find an alternative medicine practitioner. I thought you might find useful.
Well here, ill start playing along…
Ok assume i have never read any book or did any kinda
looking into the matter.
You all caught me red handed!!
I have no clue what im doing on this blog!
One day i woke up high on crack and decided to start
arguing with a bunch of doctors!!
Shame on me…
Need we need to remind you again that not every one here is a doctor? Plus the author of Snake Oil Science is not a medical doctor (he is a biostatistician), and one of the authors of Trick or Treatment is a physicist.
Anyway, all that anyone has asked you to do is to provide some real evidence for what you claim. The Snake Oil Science can be a guide on how to evaluate that evidence.
Well, no one would ever accuse you have having an open mind:
http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=442
Chris
I know everyone on here is not a doctor. Including yourself.
Once again i am asking the doctors on here to conduct a new
study to find out once and for all if alternative is bunk or not.
What is so hard about that request?
I stress again, i have read books just like that but what i am
trying to tell you is this was a different expirence for me. Was not like most patterns that certain folks in the field of alternative
medicine follow. Do you understand what i am saying.
Now back to the point, doctors need more concrete evidence
to debunk alternative medicine other then links to studies
that still do not bare enough conclusive evidence on this
matter.
Other then that if i told you jesus came to me in real life
and told me to argue with you people on here, what evidence
could i find to make you believe me?
See how hard and not possible that would be? I feel as if
i witnessed something on a deep spiritual level. Nothing nor
any amount of science can measure that. No book can possibly
explain what i expirenced. This is on a whole new level or else
i would easily be able to see the logic and the explination
in what i witnessed.
You dont have to believe me but im issuing the challange
to get opinions or see what others have to say and it is very
hard to find people with an open mind.
Heres a bold question and really has nothing to do with the
topic at hand, but might help explain a lot…
Does anyone on here believe in god? a god? or better put…
the possibility of something spiritual?
“Other then that if i told you jesus came to me in real life
and told me to argue with you people on here, what evidence
could i find to make you believe me?”
Jesus Hernandez? You know him too? So what? Just relay his message.
“Does anyone on here believe in god? a god? or better put…
the possibility of something spiritual?”
Speaking only for myself, who grew up a Roman Catholic and is now an agnostic. Belief in God and an afterlife is very comforting, especially if you lose a loved one. But the comfort is not enough to make the belief true. I think we are programmed to believe in a God. Again, that is not enough to make the belief true. I am not an atheist, as I have no way of knowing one way or the other. I think those people who do, are probably much smarter than me.
Spirituality is another word that for most of my life has been in search of a meaning. I think of it now as what animates you, or has you take an interest in whatever interests you. In my case, I find spirituality in science, medicine, learning new things about the world around us and finding ways of applying that knowledge.
weing
I was a little suprised by you reply. Here i thought maybe
you where just plain and simply narrow minded.
“Jesus Hernandez? You know him too? So what? Just relay his message”.
Oddly enough my last name happens to be Hernandez…
See i was just relaying the message that i have seen the
effects of acupressure and have expirenced them for myself.
Now pretty much the basis for alternative medicine or should
i say more or less acupressure in laymen’s terms, is working
with the spiritual energy of the body, or chi if you wanna call it.
Since some people believe in this energy or the soul then
its no wonder why it might work.
I have seen it produce results. I have seen it manage pain
for others who go to this person i know. So i can only assume
more so with my own exprience that it indeed works for many
things. which is why i think more research needs to be done
to find out the whole truth once and for all.
PS
This is for all the haters on here…
Yes i believe in SBM, but i also believe in some and i stress
some forms of alternative medicine.
vargkill,
I have seen money the Tooth Fairy brought. Leaving the tooth under the pillow really works – I’ve experienced it myself many times.
Perhaps you will say I am mistaken. Perhaps it was the parents, not the Tooth Fairy, who put the money under the pillow. Yes, and perhaps it was not qi or the spiritual energy of the body that produced the results you experienced.
We can’t “prove” that there is no Tooth Fairy, and we can’t “prove” that qi is not real. The burden of proof is on believers in Tooth Fairies and qi to show that they are real.
Edzard Ernst “believed” in alternative medicine and was the world’s first professor of complementary and alternative medicine. He evaluated all the available evidence and found very little of substance. See http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=195, where I quote a paragraph of his conclusions.
When medieval doctors used bloodletting to balance the humours, the experience of thousands of doctors and patients showed that it worked for many illnesses. Only it didn’t. If the experiences of all those thousands could mislead them so badly, your experience might just possibly have misled you too. Until claims like yours are tested scientifically, we can’t trust them.
Ah grasshopper vargkill, you do not yet grasp “onus.”
I do not say “CAM is bunk.” If I did, you would be correct in your demand for proof of that claim.
I say, “CAM is unproven.” That claim requires no proof. The onus is on the party claiming CAM does something more than placebo.
I say, “Your claim about the faith healer’s mysterious powers is unproven.” That statement does not require proof.
vargkill, your story is important to you. I understand. I could tell you of experiences from my own life that might curl your hair –prayers answered, unbelievable coincidences, transcendent feelings, etc.
These kinds of stories are precious to the people who tell them. But, like dreams, they’re not so interesting to everyone else. They’re a dime a dozen. Just part of the human condition.
Weird shit happens all the time. If you study statistics, you’ll understand why.
Such stories are
Now pretty much the basis for alternative medicine or should
i say more or less acupressure in laymen’s terms, is working
with the spiritual energy of the body, or chi if you wanna call it.
“Accupressure” is more specific than “alternative medicine.” I think you’re on the right track when you’re as specific as possible.
Traditional Chinese Medicine includes using ground up rhinoceros horn as a treatment for male impotence. That’s just old-fashioned sympathetic magic –something humans have done for thousands of years. The horn looks kinda like a hard-on, ergo…
Sympathetic magic lives on even though it doesn’t work. Sadly, TCM is driving the rhinoceroses to extinction. Primitive thinking can sometimes be pretty evil.
When you defend, “alternative medicine,” I’m guessing you’re not defending the rhinoceros horn remedy or all the other insane things that get included in the alt med set. You’re focused on the accupressure.
Harriet Hall
I am fully aware and can at least admit to the
possibilty that there might be a logical explination for my
expirence. Yet there still is plently to ride on the fact that
maybe something truly awesome that cannot be explained happened.
On top of it there are many many people who have been
helped by Mr Wu.
Dr Benway
As i have stated many times, i think some forms of alternative
medicine is crap and ill say it again, i think others works and if
a acupressure person knows their s**t i think it can be
truly effective.
I agree more research needs to be done.