Acupuncture, Infertility, and Horrible Reporting

An article (and associated news video clip) from ClickOn in Detroit is titled “Alternative treatment helps Michigan doctor beat infertility.” This is a misleading title, and the report is an example of poor science reporting.

Was She Infertile?

The patient in question was a 33-year-old family practice doctor who believed she was infertile. By definition, infertility is failure to conceive after a year of regular intercourse without contraception. She didn’t meet that definition. She only tried for 6 months before seeing a doctor, and then for 2 more months (with some kind of unspecified medicine) and then she consulted a reproductive endocrinologist who apparently told her she was infertile because of a high FSH level. Then she “did her own research” and supposedly found that acupuncture was a key part of infertility treatment. So she sought infertility treatment from an acupuncturist.

What Do FSH Levels Mean?

High FSH can indicate menopause or poor ovarian responsiveness. In the treatment of infertility with in vitro fertilization (IVF), FSH level measured on day 3 of the menstrual cycle is predictive of fertility within that IVF cycle. But for diagnosing infertility, one measurement is not enough to base predictions on. Lab values vary, and FSH levels are known to fluctuate with factors like stress and illness.

It sounds like she was told she was infertile based on one FSH test; if so, that was an unwarranted diagnosis. Then, during acupuncture treatment, the FSH levels dropped. Did they drop because of the acupuncture? Did they drop for other reasons like a reduction in stress? Would they have dropped anyway without any treatment at all? We don’t know. She attributes it to the acupuncture, but she may be committing the post hoc ergo propter hocfallacy (“correlation is not causation”).

The Treatment

After six months of acupuncture, she became pregnant and subsequently gave birth to a healthy baby. The treatments consisted of needle insertions and supplements (not identified) from an acupuncturist who claims to “treat the whole person” and restore the woman’s normal healthy reproductive cycle “as best as can be naturally done.” He admits

I’m not a doctor, I don’t pretend to be a doctor, and I don’t have the diagnostic tools of a doctor.

The Evidence

One literature review found that acupuncture “may have a role” in the treatment of polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS) (which this patient did not have), but a controlled study  showed no difference between true and sham acupuncture for PCOS. A study with a sham acupuncture control claimed to show an improvement in menopausal symptoms with acupuncture, but no difference in FSH levels was detected.  A study from China showed an increase in FSH in aging men with partial androgen deficiency when they were treated with acupuncture and medication, but not with acupuncture alone.

A search of PubMed didn’t turn up any credible evidence for the effectiveness of acupuncture for treating infertility per se. One systematic review found no evidence of effectiveness for infertility except in one specific area of embryo transfer. There were a number of articles about in vitro fertilization (IVF).  A Cochrane review looked at embryo transfer in assisted conception and concluded that acupuncture

shows a beneficial effect on the live birth rate; however, with the present evidence this could be attributed to placebo effect and the small number of women included in the trials. Acupuncture should not be offered during the luteal phase in routine clinical practice until further evidence is available from sufficiently powered RCTs.

One study showed an improvement in measures of stress in infertility patients.  I wrote about a study of acupuncture for IVF  that showed it didn’t work: the researchers tried to blame the patients for not having good quality embryos. When that didn’t turn out to be true, they still recommended using acupuncture. The Skeptic’s Dictionary has a good overview of the published evidence on acupuncture for infertility.  Steven Novella has written about a study that showed that using CAM (several modalities included) resulted in lower pregnancy rates.

In short, I don’t know where she did her research, but I couldn’t find any credible evidence to support using acupuncture either for infertility or for raising FSH levels. And there is no plausible physiologic mechanism by which it could be expected to help other than perhaps by assisting relaxation and reducing worry, anxiety, and stress.

The Story

The news story was credulous, didn’t adequately explain the facts, and didn’t present any conflicting data or opinions. It provided two links for readers to get more information: both are extremely biased and contain misinformation. One link is to another credulous example of poor reporting from the popular media, and the other is a link to the website of the Acupuncture Center of Ann Arbor, which offers a number of questionable treatments including DHEA and bioidentical hormones.

There was nothing from skeptics or from patients who had acupuncture and did not get pregnant. There wasn’t even the usual token effort to present “both sides” of a controversial story. This is not good science journalism. It isn’t even science journalism. It amounts to irresponsible sensationalism and free advertising for the Acupuncture Center of Ann Arbor.

Bottom Line

This woman did not meet the criteria for a diagnosis of infertility when she started seeking treatment. There’s every reason to think she got pregnant just in the natural course of things, and no reason to think acupuncture had any effect. The news report and article are a travesty. Detroit deserves better.

Posted in: Acupuncture, Obstetrics & gynecology, Science and the Media

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43 thoughts on “Acupuncture, Infertility, and Horrible Reporting

  1. sarah007 says:

    What a sad thread. You look at these studies that ‘prove’ accupuncture is no better than placebo and you see the old chesnut, ‘sham acupuncture’. If this is anything like the other evidence posted about trials on e 157 h7 and trying to substitute raw grass with hay or synthetic vitamin A for real vitamin A then of course the sham acupuncuture won’t be any different, the study isn’t about showing something works it is about making sure it fails to show anything of value.

    The more I post on this site and see what comes back the more it is clear that the evidence base you cite is no better than PR or marketing, for me and others to see that I thank you.

  2. windriven says:

    FSH = follicle stimulating hormone for those of us who didn’t know. FSH together with luteinizing hormone (LH) peak around the middle of the estrus cycle with a surge of LH apparently actually triggering ovulation. Both FSH and LH are produced in the pituitary gland.


    1. It takes two to tango. It doesn’t appear that hubby’s count or motility were taken into account.
    2. The plural of anecdote is not data. This singular anecdote as reported does not rise to the level of datum.
    3. Echoing Dr. Hall’s invocation of post hoc ergo propter hoc, I may have slaughtered a goat on the night the subject conceived and placed its entrails on the keyboard of a TRS-80. I now believe that entrails and TRS-80s are the one true cure for infertility. I’ll see if Ted Kaptchuk wants to publish with me.

  3. sarah007 says:

    The windy one said “2. The plural of anecdote is not data. This singular anecdote as reported does not rise to the level of datum.”

    Medical data/anecdote is has a spectacular phenomina attached to it, if lots of medical types and especially NIH and CDC tell us to believe it because they have papers proving it the medical anecdote moves to fact.

    It’s winter, lots of people all over the world have a runny nose, bit of a temperature, they must have caught it. In autumn horse chesnut trees have this spikey green ball virus that has a small brown lump in it. This virus is only contagious between the aesculus hippocastanum. Using big quango words also helps to raise the medical anecdote to fact status, if it’s been reviewed by a seaside peir it’s even more facty.

    Come on Harriet, where are the bodys, where are the dissatisfied patients we are waiting. Also if you want proper help, what did you have for breakfast today?

  4. Mark Crislip says:

    As I have mentioned before, despite all the wondrous effects of alt med why are there are no alternative forms of birth control? If acupuncture is effective for conception, why not the prevention of conception? Maybe it has to do with the fact that on all the acupuncture charts I have seen, there are no points or meridians on the genitalia. Wonder why?

  5. BobbyG says:

    @9:32 a.m.

    “Data” are “plural.” “Bodys” is not.

  6. Quill says:

    In the newspaper business, they used to call such articles “filler.” Can’t publish blank spaces, so -something- must be there, however silly. This one-anecdote testimonial certainly qualifies as filler even though the person testifying to the wonders of CAM is a medical doctor. She seems quite young, so I did a quick search to see where she was educated. Apparently she got her M.D. from Georgetown in 2002. What are they teaching there these days?

  7. Calli Arcale says:

    Mark — because, of course, it’s so much easier to handwave away a lack of a pregnancy than an unintended one.

    I know a woman who tried for years to get pregnant. She definitely met the medical definition. She tried several infertility treatments, but stopped short of IVF. At that point, she decided to go for adoption. When she and her husband brought their new son home from South America, they were surprised to discover that she was pregnant. They weren’t even trying to conceive anymore; it happens.

    I know another woman who had an anatomical condition which made pregnancy very difficult to achieve. She tried for years, then eventually resorted to IVF, and gave birth to a beautiful baby boy. (Also nearly died in the process; this anatomical condition also made carrying a pregnancy to term risky.) They had their son, and they were happy. They had spent a lot of money and taken a big risk, and that was enough. A year later, she got pregnant unexpectedly, and nine months later, a healthy baby girl came along.

    Even with a diagnosis of infertility, it’s rare for a woman to actually be *completely* infertile, unless she has no ovaries. Even a tubal ligation only greatly reduces the odds of a pregnancy; there’s still a tiny chance. And that means there’s fodder for the anecdote mills. When one positive anecdote is all it takes to trump thousands of failures, pretty much anything can seem like a real treatment for infertility. I find it hard to believe that all of these practitioners are so ignorant to not realize that. Many of them definitely are, but some probably know that they’re not really doing anything for the patient and just don’t care. Caveat emptor.

  8. chaos4zap says:

    Great, the Sarah007 Troll is back,

    Would you care to explain what you mean by “medical anecdote”? Care to site a single case where the CDC and NIH pushed an intervention that was only based on anecdotes alone? Typical SCAM non-sense. Those straw-mans sure don’t put up much of a fight.

  9. Pman says:

    Stories like this are what undermines many of SBM’s efforts.

  10. sarah007 says:

    Chaos4zap said ” Would you care to explain what you mean by “medical anecdote”?
    “Care to site a single case where the CDC and NIH pushed an intervention that was only based on anecdotes alone? ”

    Swine flu pandemic.

  11. DW says:

    Sarah, you don’t know what the words “anecdote” and “data” even mean. Why don’t you give it up, on a forum like this you just make yourself look ridiculous if you can’t post things that even make sense.

  12. DW says:

    “why are there are no alternative forms of birth control?”

    Excellent point … how about CAM forms of abortion?

    Oh yeah … we tried that, and mostly the victims died.

  13. chaos4zap says:

    And what intervention did they push? Being prepared, just in case? FDA recommendations to cook raw food to a certain temperature because it MAY contain pathogens… I suppose that is a conspiracy to keep people busy in front of their ovens while the government poisons the water supply and disperses toxins from airplane exhausts? Someone eats raw food, doesn’t get sick, then claims that the warnings are all overhyped paranoia and government conspiracy? It won’t do any good, we have been through this over and over.

    If everyone else collectively agreed to just ignore this troll, then sorry about that guy’s.

  14. Jan Willem Nienhuys says:

    The most astonishing part of the story is that a family doctor (an MD, right?) was so ignorant. When someone who is not a physician reports back ‘what the doctor supposedly said’, one can always surmise that they didn’t quite understand.

  15. David Gorski says:

    Yeah, I wondered about that. What it looked like to me is that a friend and/or colleague of Dr. McGeorge. (Notice that they’re both wearing the same logo on their lab coats.) It is truly disappointing that a physician can so easily fall for this nonsense. As happy as I am that she finally managed to conceive, I’m disappointed that she’s apparently so credulous.

    I also must admit that something else about this story confused me. Dr. Murfey is listed as a family medicine doctor. However, in the video segment she’s shown working in the emergency room, and a quick Google search shows her to be a PGY-III in Emergency Medicine at Henry Ford Hospital. That would make sense, given that Dr. McGeorge is an ER doc at Henry Ford. Then I found Dr. Murfey listed as a family practice doctor over in Jackson, MI, which is nearly 90 miles away from Henry Ford. Maybe she had a career switch so that she could do shift work?

  16. DWATC says:

    I, first and foremost, would like to apologize to the other commenters for what I’m about to do. I’ve decided to speak directly to Sarah007 or Troll007 as you all refer to her as, and even though I’m low on the medical food chain, I try my best to use evidence-based practices and implement basic concepts of the scientific method… Anyway, I’ll try to take the brunt of her onslaught of irrationalities…

    So Sarah… I decided to skim through your various comment posts. As it becomes obvious that you’re being ignored for the most part, you do bring up valid questions sometimes. The issue I’m seeing is your valid questions or points get muddled within the propaganda and misinformation you’re spewing coming from the various documentaries and websites you visit like, I assume, naturalnews.

    Your main points break down into…
    1) Some conspiracy about the “swine flu”.
    2) Corn does not equal grain.
    3) Doctors memorize protocols instead of utilizing critical thinking skills, professional judgement, and expert opinion.
    4) This is an assumption, correct me if I’m wrong, you appear to be a germ theory denialist and question whether disease actually exists.

    Well, I want to redirect these issues to you…

    1) What is the “swine flu”? What virus are you referring to? What is considered to be a “pandemic”? How many people are infected annually? deaths? What are the signs and symptoms of this influenza virus you’re referring to? What are the current treatments? What’s the prognosis of this flu? Would an antibiotic work for a viral infection? Is there a “cure” to this condition? What is the pathophysiology of the condition? Where does the virus go once symptoms have subsided? Who reported the “swine flu pandemic”? How did you hear about it? Who did you hear it from? Where did they hear it from? Are the sources reliable?

    2) What ingredients make up corn? What ingredients make up “grain”? Which grain? What do said ingredients do physiologically? Where are they filtered? where are they processed? What are the calorie classifications? How much is in the form of carbohydrates? What type of carbohydrates? Where are the calories used in the cows body? What about the human body? What about “grass”? ingredients? What type of grass? What changes when grass goes to hay? What does grass do physiologically in the cow? What types of bacteria live within the cows digestive tract? Would giving them probiotics help? (joke haha)

    3) What is the protocol for a Stage II Hypertensive 36 yo male patient previously diagnosed with obstructive septal and ventricular hypertrophy with a family history of stroke, heart attack, and hypertrophic cardiomyopathy? What are the components of the home exercise program and nutritional guide? What kind of exercises can he do or cant do? What is the active ingredient is “statins”? Which one? What is its mechanism? What is the toxicity level of the active ingredient? Whats the half-life of the active ingredient? What are the names of the generic medications? What studies have been done on this medication? Outcome?

    Scenario: You are a general physician. You have 20 patients on Wednesday morning from 8-12. 16 of those patients would benefit from an nutrition and weight control plan. Could you sit down and explain said plans in the timeframe specified? Would you be able to answer the questions given by the patient and answer the other thousand unsaid questions by the patient? Is patient education important to you? (It is to me, and happens to be the downfall of our system. Of course, that’s my opinion. If patient education has more emphasis placed on it, we wouldn’t have as many “sarah007″s with a vast misunderstanding of science and medicine….again my opinion.)

    4) Please clarify. Does HIV exist? Do you believe it was manufactured by some secret government agency? Does HIV cause AIDS? Does AIDS exist? Do you believe everything you hear in documentaries or just ones that agree with your current ideology? What degree do you have? What field of medicine are you? Do you visit a naturopath regularly? Does said naturopath/chiropractor/acupuncturist/homeopath tell you things about how “western medicine” or “conventional medicine” is bad? Does your plan of staying well involve coffee enemas? What economic class are you in? (being that your children are unvaccinated, and you hold an ideology such as this, I would guess upper middle class, caucasian living in the suburbs of …california or somewhere on the west coast maybe?)

    Again I am sorry to the rest of you. This is strictly for entertainment purposes, keep up the good work!!!

  17. DWATC says:

    5) Forgot to mention your logic of … More dissatified patients with conventional medicine than with alternative medicine therefore alternative medicine works better for the people.

    …. I would like to refer you to the scenario. If a “doctor” pays close attention to his/her patients, answers questions, comforts them, provides stress and relaxation techniques, has a friendly staff, repeatedly assures them that they are about the patient being “well”, gives a treatment that is referred to as “natural”, gives vague medical terminology and uses a big vocabulary to, again, comfort the patient about the practitioner’s qualifications, spends extensive time with the patient, warms their hands, and turns the lights down low, would the patient be more or less satisfied with said “doctor” or with the doctor that visited them for 5 minutes, gave them a prescription then walked out? …. oh yeah I forgot to mention the patient has an upper respiratory infection that last 7-10 days regardless of treatment…

  18. sarah007 says:

    Hi twat. Patient goes to doctor with pain in the leg, doctor prescribes painkillers. Doctors need to actually start doing something constructive rather than conning people into believing that they have some kind of Chiltern rites to health nurvana.

    Stop lying to people with chronic illnesses and palliating symptoms and doing nothing else but claiming to be treating their unhealth.

    Stop pretending that medical peer review is some kind of truth, stop pretending to test hypotheisis that contradict them by testing something else and claiming truth.

    Twat said “I try my best to use evidence-based practices and implement basic concepts of the scientific method…” What’s this mystery magic then.

    I wonder what the hit stats are now David?

  19. lilady says:

    @ DWATC: Let’s not even try to reason with the Troll and let’s not forget…

    Rule #14 Do not feed the Troll and,

    Rule #14 (a) Especially if it is an ignorant, delusional, potty-mouthed Troll

  20. Chris Repetsky says:


    You made a valiant effort friend, but there’s no reasoning with stupidity. Best just to drop it. Whatever argument you put forth, no matter how iron-clad, will be “refuted” with nonsense.

    You’re fighting a battle of wits, and she’s clearly unarmed.

  21. bgoudie says:

    Seriously now. Pointless babble by ignorant trolls is one thing. Trolls trying to be cute with how they treat the spelling of other poster’s names is generally ignorable. But when they delve in juvenile vulgarity when doing so, can’t we just be rid of them?

  22. Chris says:

    bgoudie, it does show the strength of their argument. It is best to ignore them.

  23. papertrail says:

    I’ve patiently tried to answer her, but yeah, she admits to playing some kind of devil’s advocate game, and so who knows if any of what she is saying is even sincere felt. I’ll agree to ignore now. I already answered her swine flu issue but she persists. Dead end.

  24. EricG says:


    kinda wierd how she dodged every element of your questioning. she seems fit to be president of the US.

    also very odd how you distinctly imply that exercise and nutrition will be a part of this hypothetical patient’s treatment and she then insists that all you want to do is prescribe pain meds.

    I would say that the average naturopath is distinctly more likely to be selling health “nurvana” (wonder if that was a failed attempt at onomatopoeia or if the ‘I’ key fell off during the frenzy…) given the oft invoked mystical word soup resembling a Buddhist text.

  25. papertrail says:

    @ Harriet
    “Then, during acupuncture treatment, the FSH levels rose. Did they rise because of the acupuncture?”

    I’m pretty sure you meant to say the FSH levels decreased, not rose.

  26. papertrail says:

    @Mark Crislip
    “why are there are no alternative forms of birth control”

    I used an alternative birth control method. She’s doing very well, I might add.

  27. Harriet Hall says:

    Yes, the FSH levels decreased. I have corrected the text. Thanks for bringing the error to my attention.

  28. DWATC says:

    @Sarah… Thanks for the…vague…response. We actually test our hypotheses, that’s the poi…nevermind…

    @lilady… Thank you. I knew what type of response I’d get. She didn’t fail to perform.

    @Chris…Yeah tis why I waited quite a while to join this forum. I’d have a difficult time ignoring it. It’s an art and learning process dealing with these personalities.

    @bgoudie… valid point :-)

    @Papertrail… Doesn’t it seem like she’s either reading from a Natural News manual or literally putting on a show to say….get more people to comment, therefore bring more ‘hits’ on the site…..? Dundun dunnnnn….

    @EricG… Yes I was simply implying, with fair certainty, that there are people on this site that could answer those questions in extreme (likely monotonous) detail.

  29. papertrail says:

    DWATC said: Doesn’t it seem like she’s either reading from a Natural News manual or literally putting on a show to say….get more people to comment, therefore bring more ‘hits’ on the site…..? Dundun dunnnnn….

    OMG, maybe it’s our own Dr. Gorski in disguise. Hey, I have one thing to say to you Dr. Gorski, nice try, but you weren’t very convincing.

  30. Chris says:

    DWATC, I cut my teeth on the wild and wooly newsgroups on Usenet. I even have a tribute page on dedicated to a former nickname* (it has something to do with the owner of that website having his bum burned with satanic ley lines).

    This is why I give them a chance early on, and then stick to ignoring. Though it was easier on Usenet.

    * I am not the Chris Repetsky who you were replying to, but he/she expressed my exact sentiments.

  31. WilliamLawrenceUtridge says:

    DWATC, I tried reason, clear thinking and evidence on several other threads. Troll007’s response was to muddy my reasoning with logical fallacies (one favourite combination was reductio ad absurdum and false dilemma – if there are any flaws in any medical study, that meant the entire enterprise of medicine was completely worthless and 100% wrong – and somehow that meant alternative medicine was right), ignore my clear thinking and claim no evidence could be trusted because Big Bad Pharma corrupts everything (no matter that much research is funded by government agencies).

    And of course, claims made by Joe Mercola are 100% accurate, because he doesn’t make any money selling drugs. He does make millions of dollars selling supplements, tanning beds* and rare salt – but that’s OK because they’re not drugs!

    Anyway, expect an ignorant Gish gallop – lots of claims, no sources, no context and no evidence Troll is even aware of what science or the scientific method is. Above all, expect no substance, just endless, repetitive, trite catchphrases and soundbites. The parallels to election season are remarkable.

    *Funny thing about that – Mercola states that you should get your vitamin D naturally from sunshine – but also sells a tanning bed. Huh? Last I heard fluorescent tubes weren’t exactly harvested from the Amazon rain forests by shamans who have ne’er been touched by the evils of modern society.

  32. @Dr. Gorski, I have no experience with residency spot swapping, but in the southern USA a lot of ER docs are actually family docs. So I would guess it’s easy to switch between family medicine and EM residencies. ?

  33. weing says:

    Even when a study is funded by Big Bad Pharma, it would be a mistake to disqualify it for that reason alone. You have to take the study on its merits. The recent ALTITUDE trial from Novartis and the PROVE-IT study from BMS a few years ago are just a few cases in point. They showed that their drugs were inferior to what was tested or actually dangerous and led to decreases in market share and tremendous loss of profits for them.

  34. mousethatroared says:

    Interesting Read!

    Harriet Hall “There was nothing from skeptics or from patients who had acupuncture and did not get pregnant. There wasn’t even the usual token effort to present “both sides” of a controversial story. This is not good science journalism. It isn’t even science journalism. It amounts to irresponsible sensationalism and free advertising for the Acupuncture Center of Ann Arbor.”

    It’s my impression that it’s not terribly unusual for businesses to send in press releases to newspapers. Many newspapers then print these releases as articles, sometime with minimal fact checking or editing from a journalist. I don’t have time to check into this article right now, but I wonder…?

    David Gorski “It is truly disappointing that a physician can so easily fall for this nonsense. As happy as I am that she finally managed to conceive, I’m disappointed that she’s apparently so credulous.”

    Yup, Here’s the thing that bothers me. (possibly irrelevantly, since the doctor in question is in family or ER practice rather than Reproductive Endocrinology, but here goes) For me the problem is not so much CAM vs standard medicine. The use of accupunture here is a symptom of overall sloppy thinking. As a patient, a recommendation of an alternative treatment like acupuncture is an obvious red flag, but how can I tell when a doctor’s recommendation of a more standard treatment (clomid, pregonal, IVF, IUI, etc) is based on similarly sloppy thinking? Grrr.

    It’s helps very little that reproductive endocrinologists services are mostly provided in-house. So, unlike many other doctors, RE’s profit from many of the tests and procedure they recommend. This is not to suggest that all or even many RE’s are dishonest or are not working in their patient’s best interest. To me it just makes the risk of sloppy thinking in this field somewhat more of a concern than in some other specialties.

  35. mousethatroared says:

    But the way, I agree with bgoudie – S007’s posts have more the character of obscene phone calls than an actual attempt to make a point.

  36. DW says:

    David Gorski “It is truly disappointing that a physician can so easily fall for this nonsense. As happy as I am that she finally managed to conceive, I’m disappointed that she’s apparently so credulous.”

    Well, most doctors aren’t scientists, or academics. I think the ones that are forget this :) A lot of people become physicians because they want to treat patients. This is where their time and energy goes – nearly 100% of it. They aren’t reading this blog. Those who are academics are really in a different world. The whole “science based” thing is not something that is really on most docs’ minds a lot of the time, as it is for people who post here.

    I am no expert (not a doctor) but it seems like medical education doesn’t really include a lot of specific training in critical thinking, scientific reasoning, the importance of the process that goes into establishing (and modifying) the evidence base, etc. Even for doctors who aren’t going to participate in that process (most of them), they need a full and vital understanding of how it works and how important it is and how relevant it is to their practice. Most doctors I’m sure understand all this theoretically, and of course they hear about new findings and try to apply them, but in reality these matters are fairly far removed from their daily concerns. Hopefully that is changing. But it’s a process. This leaves plenty of doctors who are credulous to woo.

  37. sarah007 says:

    This really is like being back at school, do you really think that someone who has not made up their mind would look at any of your posts and articles and go with it?

    Mass non support of swine flu pandemic says no!

    “You have to take the study on its merits.” more medical anecdote then? Wong again

  38. DW says:

    “I used an alternative birth control method. She’s doing very well, I might add.”


  39. DW says:

    Likewise why are there no “alternative” means to set broken bones or lance wounds, no alternative CPR, no alternative open heart surgery? “Alternative surgery” in general doesn’t seem to have taken off in the CAM world … interesting.

    I always think it’s funny how CAM advocates will admit (as Sarah did) that they’re all in favor of the big bad mean traditional mainstream medicine if they’re in a car accident and need trauma care; or if they accidentally cut off a finger, or fall down the stairs, or are the victim of a gunshot wound, they’re quite happy to be transported to the ER. They don’t seem to think there’s any inconsistency there. Emergency care is somehow cordoned off in their minds, in its own zone.

  40. DW says:

    “Mass non support of swine flu pandemic”

    Sarah news flash, pandemics don’t really care wehther the masses “support” them or not.

  41. BillyJoe says:

    “Wong again”

    With that self-referential double entendre, I’m off to bed. :D

  42. Connor says:


    Hi Sarah,

    I posted a reply to you in the following thread – Perpetual Motion: More on the Bravewell Report.

    You may of missed it, hoping you can reply.

  43. hamlet423 says:

    Dr. Murfey graduated Family Medicine from Univ of Michigan, Class of 2006. I was a classmate.

    I am very happy that she was able to conceive and have what seems to be a healthy baby.

    I will see if she wants to address any of the concerns here and perhaps clear up any misconceptions.

    I am unclear if she opted to go back to train in Emergency Medicine.

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