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Hi Ho Silver

I was making rounds at the hospital and, for some strange reason, I was being asked about influenza. No, this is not going to be an entry on influenza. But I was asked if there was anything besides the vaccines that can prevent influenza.  Masks and good hand washing will help, I said.

Anything else?

A nurse suggested colloidal silver.

I said there was nothing to colloidal silver.  With what I would describe as a withering look, she opined that not only had she never had the flu because she took colloidal silver, but that she has a friend whose tumor has been in remission for 6 years because of colloidal silver.  She had to respond to an alarm and I had to move on to the next patient, so we yet had an opportunity to converse further on the topic. Which is good because it occurred to be I did not know much about colloidal silver beyond the fact it can turn you blue.  So this entry in my attempt to prepare for my next discussion with a colloidal silver proponent.

Silver is an antiseptic, not an antibiotic.  It has the advantage of most antiseptics in that organisms do not easily  become resistant. It does kill a large number of pathogens and is used clinically.  Silver is impregnated into catheters to prevent infections.  Silver nitrate has been put in the eyes of newborns to prevent gonorrhea.

Various formulations of silver have been tried to aid wound healing, with little effect and Silvadene, silver sulfadiazine, has long been used to treat burns, although its efficacy, when compared to everything from honey to aloe, is often found wanting.  So there is variable clinical data to perhaps supporting use of some forms of silver to treat or prevent some infections.  I will admit to an affinity to suggesting honey and or sugar for chronic wounds; that should be a topic for another post. There are also uses of silver for water purification. So there are legitimate reasons to use silver as an antiseptic.

Ancient wisdom is always a guide for therapy. Cupping. Bleeding. Purging.  Popular therapies back in the day. Silver containers was used by ancients to keep water and other fluids fresh. I cannot find independent verification of this fact, perhaps they kept water in silver because silver is pretty and rare and good for demonstrating wealth, and we are attributing its antiseptic properties retroactively.  Nor can I find independent verification that Royals were called blue bloods due to chronic silver exposure from their eating utensils.  Odd that colloidal silver sites would mention this, since it is evidence of toxicities they deny occurs in other sections of the same websites.  The use of apocryphal information appears to be standard in the colloidal silver ‘literature’.  It is rare to have so little verifiable information about a treatment.

As I have discussed before, users of alternative therapies are not comfortable with nuance and subtlety, and,  I think, prefer black and white binary approaches.  Mercury in one form is toxic, so all forms of mercury are toxic.  Some forms of silver are beneficial, so all forms of silver of benefit, including colloidal silver. The inability to deal with shades of gray is a hallmark of many forms of alternative therapy.

As best I can tell, silver was used as a medicine for years by grinding it up and suspending it in water.  The problem is that the silver is not dissolved but is a suspension and it rapidly settles out of solution. What people were looking for at the turn of the century was a way to keep the silver in suspension. Colloids occur when one substance is evenly distributed in another without being dissolved, like antibodies or albumin in blood.  Or fat in milk.  Proteins like albumin have the advantage of binding metals like silver and allow them to stay in suspension for long periods of time.

“The broader commercial definition of “colloidal silver” includes products that contain various concentrations of ionic silver, silver colloids, ionic silver compounds or bound proteins in purified water. Colloidal silver with concentrations of 30 parts per million (ppm) or less are typically manufactured using an electrolysis process, whereas colloidal silver  with higher concentrations of 50 ppm or more are usually silver compounds that have been bound with a protein.”

In the form of colloidal silver it is ingested for various alleged  health benefits, especially to treat infections.

How many infections?  “Colloidal Silver safely kills over 650 disease-causing bacteria, viruses, fungi, parasites, and molds, has no negative side-effects.” 650! Wow! Where does that number come from?  It, evidently was pulled out of thin air in a 1976 Science Digest article entitled “Our mightiest germ fighter
which was a discussion of of of not colloidal silver, but silver sulfadiazine, aka silvadene and other topical uses of silver.

And nowhere in the article is 650 validated. It was a number that appears to have been invented by the headline writer.  Not that Science Digest is peer reviewed journal and has to reference their headline. But that 650 has taken on a life of its own.  Like 98.6 being normal body temperature.  Many of the colloidal silver sites trumpet this on their websites (43,000 Google hits for “Colloidal Silver kills over 650″ as a search term.”  650 is so sciency, even if made up.

Could silver kill 650 various and sundry organisms?  I would not be surprised if it were the right concentration.  Silver is toxic to cells, so it should kill germs. And it does. Like mercury or gold.  In its elemental form they are toxic and will kill living things at the right concentration.  As will isopropal alcohol; ingestion may not be such a good idea. Many chemicals can kill a wide variety of bacteria in the test tube.  The question is whether they have the same effects in humans and or animals.

If you look on Pubmed for the antimicrobial effects of colloidal silver, I find nothing. No test tube studies, no animal models, no case reports, no clinical trials. As far as the medical industrial complex is concerned there is, outside of toxicities, no supporting data of any kind for the use of colloidal silver.  The interwebs does allow access to susceptibility tests of colloidal silver that are published by the companies that make colloidal silver products.  However,  conflict of interest is not part of the alt med world, so we do not need to worry about their validity.  Sarcasm aside, the studies are growth of bacteria in various concentrations of colloidal silver products and as the concentrations increase, the bacteria die more rapidly.  That’s the usual dose-effect of a poison. They also tout that bacteria can’t become resistant to silver. Always a mistake, for to misquote the Borg, resistance is inevitable as E. coli has demonstrated.

So there is no data to support silver to treat infections.  What about cancer?  It is suggested, with often identical wording on website after website, that  “Dr. Bjorn Nordstrom, of the Karolinska Institute, Sweden, has used Silver in his cancer cure method, for many years. This brought rapid remission in patients given up on by other doctors.”  I do not know who was first with this sentence so I am uncertain whom to credit with the first use of this phrase.

But here is the weird thing.  Although Dr. Nordstom is credited with the same breakthrough with exactly the same sentence in site after site, I can find no English language reference that confirms there is a Bjorn Nordstrom or any details as to how he uses silver for a cancer cure.  Dr Nordstum has not published on Pubmed.  The only reference on the interwebs to a Dr Nordstom is in Swedish. If someone can translate http://www.cancerochallergifonden.se/priset1998.html we may find out more. The Swedish word for silver, silvret, is not on the page. I suspect, from reading the Swedish, he may be married to Betty Crocker.

So for what diseases is there evidence for which colloidal silver is  efficacious? Well, nothing.  Pubmed is silent on taking colloidal silver to benefit any disease, infection or otherwise. There are no clinical trials to show efficacy. Nothing.

There is, however,  little to suspect that colloidal silver, taken orally, would be of benefit.  There are not even basic pharmacokinetic studies to show how much of a given colloidal silver preparation is absorbed. Nothing. We know it is absorbed, as there are multiple cases of argyria reported in the literature. Argyria is where the silver gets irreversibly into the skin and you turn not silver but blue or blue gray.  It is an unusual side effect, but the only documented effect of prolonged ingestion colloidal silver.

If you Google colloidal silver, you will find multiple sites where you can purchase various formulations of colloidal silver with variable concentrations of silver.  All of the purveyors of these substances agree that theirs is the one true formulation for silver and that the others are flawed with the wrong size of silver molecule or the wrong preparation.  Which one is truly the true silver colloid? All. Or none I would suppose.

One seller (many of these people really need a web designer) sells increasing concentrations of colloidal sliver, with the higher  concentrations for the most cost (1500 dollars for 6 bottles) to treat ” Severe Infections and Life and Death Infections Ebola, Dengue Fever, Malaria, SARS, West Nile  at a dose of 1-3 tablespoon (15-45 cc) every 4 hours”.

There appears to be as many silver formulations as there are silver sellers, and if you are a do it yourself kind of person, you can make your own colloidal silver.

What perpetuates the use of colloidal silver are testimonials, like the nurse who suggested silver to prevent H1N1. The interwebs are filled with unsubstantiated testimonials, for common infections and unusual infections, with one gentleman crediting colloidal silver, rather than the vancomycin and gentamyin,  for the cure of his subdural empyema (pus between the brain and skull).

The FDA, with little effect to judge from the interwebs, has declared that colloidal silver is neither safe nor effective and, as an unclassified drug, cannot be sold for medical reasons.

Even the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, who rarely finds anything alternative therapy without some caveat to support its use, says.:

“* Silver has no known function in the body

* Silver is not an essential mineral supplement or a cure-all and should not be promoted as such

* Claims that there can be a “deficiency” of silver in the body and that such a deficiency can lead to disease are unfounded

* Claims made about the effectiveness of colloidal silver products for numerous diseases are unsupported scientifically

* Colloidal silver products can have serious side effects

* Laboratory analysis has shown that the amounts of silver in supplements vary greatly, which can pose risks to the consumer.”

Of course, this review leaves me with blanks in my SBM gun.  I have no data to say there is no reason to use colloidal silver.  To combat the testimonials I have, well, nothing.  No science and no substance.  It is the Oakland of alternative medicine.  Except for toxicity, all the supporting data I can find,  history, 650 germs killed, Dr. Bjorn Nordstrom, the testimonials, and the formulations of colloidal silver are based on unverifiable information or apparently made up.  It is a house of silver cards.  However, if the Blue Man Group is looking for members, I know a potential source that will save on makeup costs.

Posted in: Science and Medicine

Leave a Comment (63) ↓

63 thoughts on “Hi Ho Silver

  1. Mojo says:

    “Which is good because it occurred to be I did not know much about colloidal silver beyond the fact it can turn you blue.”

    http://arts.guardian.co.uk/pictures/image/0,8543,-10905154830,00.html

  2. Dquixote1217 says:

    If silver is so toxic to human cells, one would think that the bluest of the rare blue people, “Papa Smurf” Paul Karason, who made his own homemade ionic silver with tap water, added salt to it and consumed over a quart a day for years, would be deathly ill. Instead, he was given a clean bill of health at Mount Sinai Hospital.

    Speaking of PubMed searches, if you do a search for “colloidal silver and death” you find exactly one reference – and it was to a elderly patient where other complications could not be ruled out.

    Millions of people have used colloidal silver for decades. So where are all the deaths from this supposed “poison”. For that matter, where are all the tribes of smurfs?

    Prior to the advent of patentable and more profitable antibiotics, medicines containing silver were the most widely prescribed infection fighters by doctors and there were no fewer than 34 different approved prescription and over the counter medications which contained silver. Now, after the elimination of most large particle and silver nitrate products and after improved technology has made nano-sized particles that require far less parts per million, colloidal silver proponents claim that it is safer and more effective than ever. At the same time, however, it has become the subject of increasing attacks by mainstream medicine, which labels colloidal silver as a scam, as quackery and as a dangerous substance with no proven value.

    When it is pointed out that colloidal and nano-silver are used by NASA, Potters for Peace, the Hong Kong Subway System, Cure-Aid, and major hospital burn units, the detractors often concede that perhaps it works externally; however, they maintain that when it is taken internally it causes dangerous toxicity due to silver build-up. In a familiar refrain when it comes to silver and other alternatives to mainstream drugs, it is also claimed that colloidal silver taken internally has no “scientifically” proven benefits. One of the most widely publicized warnings is that colloidal silver causes people to turn blue due to a skin condition known as argyria.

    Yet, the EPA says that 90-95% of ingested silver particles are eliminated from the body within two days and 99% are gone within a week.

    When it comes to scientific studies regarding the benefits of internal silver, last year it was reported that researchers in Hungary found specific silver receptors on human tissue – an indication that silver plays an important role in human health. A joint study between the University of Texas and Mexico University published in the Journal of Nanotechnology showed that silver nano-particles of sizes 1-10nm attached to HIV-1 prevented the virus from bonding to host cells.

    Another study, conducted by the Department of Microbiology at Kyungpook National University in Daegu, Korea, and published in the prestigious Journal of Microbiology and Biotechnology, found that nano-silver was comparable in effectiveness to Amphotericin B, one of the most powerful prescription antifungal drugs known to man, which is often used intravenously to cure serious systemic fungal infections. The same study also found that nan-silver was superior to the well-known anti-fungal drug fluconazole (popularly known as Diflucan).

    In a recently completed study conducted by researchers from the Washington University School of Medicine and the University of Akron, Ohio, and presented at the 105th International Conference of the American Thoracic Society, researchers infected a group of mice with the bacteria Pseudomona aeroginosa. Psuedomona aeroginosa is a common cause of bacterial pneumonia in humans, especially those on ventilators, those with cystic fibrosis or those with compromised immune systems. Once infected, all the mice then inhaled aerosolized nano-particles once per day. In half of the mice, these particles contained antimicrobial particles known as silver carbene complexes (SCCs).

    Mice that inhaled the SCCs had significantly lower concentrations of bacteria in their lungs than mice inhaling placebo nano-particles. Most significantly, none of the mice in the SCC group died, while all the mice in the control group did.

    Were all those doctors who prescribed silver products and the scientists who conducted the studies liars, scammers and/or quacks? Or could it be that mainstream medicine and its advocates are attacking colloidal silver because it really does represent a threat to the hundreds of billions in profits from patented drugs?

    Meanwhile millions of people around the world are taking colloidal silver and reporting cures of pneumonia, staph, candida, MRSA, Chrohns, Lyme, the H1N1 flu, and much more.

    Maybe the nurse knew what she was talking about and a bit more homework is called for?

  3. Draal says:

    tsk. Pubmed = fail. Web of Science/Knoweledge = ftw
    Search terms: silver nanoparticles antimicrobial/antiviral/cancer

    Anti-cancer:
    Title: Anti-proliferative activity of silver nanoparticles.
    Author(s): Asharani, P V; Hande, M Prakash; Valiyaveettil, Suresh
    Source: BMC Cell Biol Volume: 10 Pages: 65 Published: 2009

    Title: Gold and silver nanoparticles conjugated with heparin derivative possess anti-angiogenesis properties.
    Author(s): Kemp, Melissa M; Kumar, Ashavani; Mousa, Shaymaa, et al.
    Source: Nanotechnology Volume: 20 Issue: 45 Pages: 455104 Published: 2009 Nov 11

    Title: Nanosilver–the burgeoning therapeutic molecule and its green synthesis.
    Author(s): Vaidyanathan, Ramanathan; Kalishwaralal, Kalimuthu; Gopalram, Shubaash, et al.
    Source: Biotechnol Adv Volume: 27 Issue: 6 Pages: 924-37 Published: 2009 Nov-Dec

    Antimicrobial:
    Title: Cinnamon zeylanicum bark extract and powder mediated green synthesis of nano-crystalline silver particles and its bactericidal activity
    Author(s): Sathishkumar, M; Sneha, K; Won, SW, et al.
    Source: COLLOIDS AND SURFACES B-BIOINTERFACES Volume: 73 Issue: 2 Pages: 332-338 Published: 2009

    Title: An investigation into the effects of silver nanoparticles on antibiotic resistance of naturally occurring bacteria in an estuarine sediment
    Author(s): Muhling, M; Bradford, A; Readman, JW, et al.
    Source: MARINE ENVIRONMENTAL RESEARCH Volume: 68 Issue: 5 Pages: 278-283 Published: 2009

    Title: Silver Nanoparticles in Therapeutics: Development of an Antimicrobial Gel Formulation for Topical Use
    Author(s): Jain, J; Arora, S; Rajwade, JM, et al.
    Source: MOLECULAR PHARMACEUTICS Volume: 6 Issue: 5 Pages: 1388-1401 Published: 2009

    Title: Intracellular Biogenic Silver Nanoparticles for the Generation of Carbon Supported Antiviral and Sustained Bactericidal Agents
    Author(s): Vijayakumar, PS; Prasad, BLV
    Source: LANGMUIR Volume: 25 Issue: 19 Pages: 11741-11747 Published: 2009

    Title: Antifungal Activity of Silver Ions and Nanoparticles on Phytopathogenic Fungi
    Author(s): Jo, YK; Kim, BH; Jung, G
    Source: PLANT DISEASE Volume: 93 Issue: 10 Pages: 1037-1043 Published: 2009

    Title: Eco-toxicity of Commercial Silver Nanopowders to Bacterial and Yeast Strains
    Author(s): Lee, S; Lee, J; Kim, K, et al.
    Source: BIOTECHNOLOGY AND BIOPROCESS ENGINEERING Volume: 14 Issue: 4 Pages: 490-495 Published: 2009

    Title: The benefits of silver in hygiene, personal care and healthcare
    Author(s): Edwards-Jones, V
    Source: LETTERS IN APPLIED MICROBIOLOGY Volume: 49 Issue: 2 Pages: 147-152 Published: 2009

    Title: The antimicrobial efficacy of sustained release silver-carbene complex-loaded L-tyrosine polyphosphate nanoparticles: Characterization, in vitro and in vivo studies
    Author(s): Hindi, KM; Ditto, AJ; Panzner, MJ, et al.
    Source: BIOMATERIALS Volume: 30 Issue: 22 Pages: 3771-3779 Published: 2009

    Title: Synthesis and Antimicrobial Activity of a Silver-Hydroxyapatite Nanocomposite
    Author(s): Diaz, M; Barba, F; Miranda, M, et al.
    Source: JOURNAL OF NANOMATERIALS Article Number: 498505 Published: 2009

    antiviral:
    Title: Inhibition of Herpes Simplex Virus Type 1 Infection by Silver Nanoparticles Capped with Mercaptoethane Sulfonate
    Author(s): Baram-Pinto, D; Shukla, S; Perkas, N, et al.
    Source: BIOCONJUGATE CHEMISTRY Volume: 20 Issue: 8 Pages: 1497-1502 Published: 2009

    Title: Silver nanoparticles inhibit hepatitis B virus replication
    Author(s): Lu, L; Sun, RWY; Chen, R, et al.
    Source: ANTIVIRAL THERAPY Volume: 13 Issue: 2 Pages: 253-262 Published: 2008

  4. mvoetmann says:

    Here is a translation of the bio in the link . Nothing about silver in there. :

    “Björn Nordenström, professor emeritus in clinical radiology, born in Ragunda in Jämtland, started his medical studies in the early 1940s. He has worked at Karolinska Sjukhuset, Sabbatsberg’s Hospital and the university hospital in Ann Arbor, USA. He has been a member of the Nobel Prize Commitee, for a while as their spokesperson. He was given the “Linus Pauling Award” and chosen as “Man of the Year” at the international congress for traditional chinese medicine in San Francisco 1988.

    Nordenström has contributed much in the clinical radiology, for instance the development of different X-ray contrast substances and the solving of hard questions about X-rays of coronar and heart. Many of his innovations are today considered standard routines in radiology , but Björn Nordenström worked in a time where they were far from standard. He is behind the “finhål” technique which ledd to the ability to discover and diagnose various tumors, breast cancer among them, at a much earlier stage.

    He explored the possibilities of treating tumors in the body with electrical and magnetic fields imposed from the outside. For this, he had to endure strong criticisms, nationally, but paradoxally it was the same theories that led him into the international scientific research elite. His methods are nowadays uses many places in the world.

    Unstoppably, Björn Nordenström has continued his work. In the later years he has formulated a theory about the body’s inner closed electrical circuit. According to this theory we humans have an inner signalsystem that uses closed biological currents.
    Björn Nordenströms pioneer work here gave a stable foundation for new phenomenon such as questions about nerve growth or imposed magnetic fields, wound- and bone-healing, and medical effects of cell phones and display screens.”

  5. Adam_Y says:

    Draal. I could find papers too if I decided that I didn’t care about whether or not they weren’t even related. Nanoparticles is not the same thing as colloidal silver.

  6. windriven says:

    Draal, generating a list of articles identifying any articles that support the use of Ag preparations systemically in humans. I did not access every one of the articles in your bibliography but I did access three that seemed promising. Unfortunately, all were in vitro studies. Each suggested possible directions for additional research but none demonstrated safety and efficacy as a systemic treatment for any of the maladies mentioned in Dr. Crispin’s article.

    The thrust of Dr. Crispin’s blog was not that Ag has no biological effects. Silver has been used in a variety of topical applications and as a coating on indwelling catheters for many years. The proponents of po administration of colloidal silver preparations make specific claims that appear unsupported in the technical literature.

    If I have missed the smoking gun in your bibliography, point it out.

  7. windriven says:

    I beg your pardon, the first sentence of my previous post should have read, “…generating a simple list of articles does not equal identifying any articles that support …”

  8. Draal says:

    @Adam_Y
    A nanoparticle can be a colloid fusing the definition Dr. Mark quoted.

    @windriven
    My point was I was fact checking; Dr. Mark’s review was incomplete:

    If you look on Pubmed for the antimicrobial effects of colloidal silver, I find nothing. No test tube studies, no animal models, no case reports, no clinical trials.

    And you made my point but didn’t connect the dots:

    Unfortunately, all were in vitro studies.

    To bring it on home… test tube studies are in vitro studies.

    I’m not arguing against Mark. I’m providing some missing information that Mark missed. I don’t disagree with the overall point of the blog. My generating a list is also for you to review additional information for yourself. I don’t try and pretend that drinking silver is good for you.

    I’m getting weary of people assuming things I never say. My brand of sarcasm seems to elude a few people even when I think it’s over the top. “Pubmed = fail and Web of Science = ftw” isn’t exactly proper and I had hoped it would have raised the sarcasm needle just a little.

  9. Draal says:

    er… ‘fusing’ was suppose to be ‘using’.

  10. Jurjen S. says:

    With all due respect, the reason you can’t find anything by a Nordstrom/Nordstrum on PubMed is because the guy’s name is (was, actually, since he died) Nordenström. There are plenty of papers on PubMed by Nordenström, B.E., much on the topic of electrochemical treatment of cancer, by which he does not mean colloidal silver, I hasten to add.

  11. windriven says:

    dquixote1217, how about some specific citations? Most of us don’t have all day to sift around looking for documentary evidence that “…it was reported that researchers in Hungary found specific silver receptors on human tissue…”

    I did track down the article you mentioned in J Microbiol Biotechnol. 2008 Aug;18(8):1482-4. But this article refers to an Ag nanoparticle preparation rather than colloidal silver and the research was conducted in vitro. More importantly, far from heralding a revolution in the clinical use of silver, the authors state: “The primary significance of this study is the observation that nano-Ag could inhibit the growth of dermatophytes, which cause superficial fungal infections.”

    Vague citations of journal articles do not a scientific argument make. And projecting in vitro results to useful clinical applications is a very long jump indeed.

  12. Dr Benway says:

    *hands Draal a chocolate chip cookie*

    Awr, even though you lose us, we still luvs ya, mate!

  13. Draal says:

    *sniffles*
    Is the ice cream cart around too?

  14. riley290 says:

    In the industry world there have been some tests of colloidal silver efficacy and nanoparticle efficacy for inhibiting the growth of bacteria and fungi in human blood products. I know this because I did them but as much as I can say due to my non-compete/non-disclosure agreements.

    I will say one caveat was that we attempted to remove as much of the silver as possible before introducing the blood products back into mice but there was antiseptic effects for quite a time in the products.

  15. Jeff says:

    Here’s one account of the pros and cons of using silver in a clinical setting. It’s written by a board-certified clinical nutritionist. He also links to some cell studies, but no human trials.

  16. The article linked to by Jeff and Dquixote’s rant are perfect examples of part of what is wrong in the CAM world. They basically extrapolate from historical uses of silver and some basic science studies to ultimate clinical claims.

    This is either profoundly naive, scientifically dubious, intellectually lazy, or simply uncaring about the truth.

    You cannot confidently extrapolate from basic science to clinical claims. You can design studies from basic science – show directions of future research, but not make clinical claims.

    The nutritionist refers to colloidal silver as a nutrient. This is also balderdash – it’s a drug.

    If we treat it like any other drug all we can say is that, while there is some evidence to suggest it might have biological activity that can be exploited, there is insufficient evidence of either safety or efficacy to recommend its use for any clinical indication.

    Internal use of colloidal silver or nano silver at this time, given the evidence, is quackery.

    Again – I invite you to imagine a drug company getting away with this level of evidence for one of their products. Can you say “double standard?”

  17. Joe says:

    Mark,

    If you were an oncologist would we call you Chemo Savvy? (Rimshot! Sometimes I kill myself.) At least you didn’t mention cold flusion …

    BTW, I recall Rosemary Jacobs (and we can hope she will drop by) writing that a lot of people who think they are taking colloidal silver are not. Since there is no control of the makeup of the products, the “hordes” of people unharmed by the stuff may simply not be taking colloidal silver.

    @Jeff on 23 Oct 2009 at 10:52 am “Here’s one account of the pros and cons of using silver in a clinical setting. It’s written by a board-certified clinical nutritionist.”

    Is that a real, medical certification like “Registered Dietitian” or is it like a “certified” Reiki master?

    @Steven Novella- what you said.

  18. 1. I don’t take colloidal silver, and I rarely get sick. If I were taking colloidal silver as a hobby, my anecdote would be at the same scientific status as the busy intern.

    2. there is an experimental procedure for figuring out if something prevents the cold: randomize health y ppl; spray rhinovirus in the nostril of people who are not currently suffering from rhinovirus (and not otherwise compromised: no hiv, etc.); give half colloidal silver and half colloidal placebo. Have a blinded assessor follow symptoms across the next two weeks. See who gets sick, and for how long. Do the math. Then get back to me. Killing something in a petri dish? Does not translate.

    3. i don’t know cancer treatment well enough to know if silver, or interactions between cancer meds and silver, would be risky, but colloidal silver could be used to augment chemotherapy for cancer. non-human animals might be found to volunteer for such studies. ramdomize and test. Then get back to me.

    4. Let me tell you about a friend of my cousin’s barber who had a neighbor who had this huge non-cancerous tumor: after weeks of colloidal silver, the tumor did not morph into cancer. Honest.

  19. Mark Crislip says:

    I used “colloidal silver” as my search term; not silver nano particles.

    Thanks I will looks at the above references this weekend. So much information out there, and the wrong search terms leads you to miss stuff.

  20. aineolach says:

    I tried to track down a reference to how Bjorn used silver to treat cancer: http://tinyurl.com/ykgnrbm

    It’s from a book titled, “Biologically closed electric circuits: clinical, experimental and theoretical evidence for an additional circulatory system” published in 1983 written by Björn Nordenström.

    I couldn’t find any reference to colloidal silver and also don’t know how relevant the silver is to the treatment or how relevant it is where it is mentioned elsewhere in the book. I’m also a very layman and can’t comment on anything contained in the book – only that it’s by Bjorn and has a reference to using silver in a cancer treatment.

  21. Draal says:

    I found the same reference as aineolach but he beat me to the punch.
    But here’s a review I lifted from somewhere:
    “Björn Nordenström, a Swedish professor in radiology, is considered to be a pioneer in the treatment of tumours with direct electric current and combination therapies in patients. In the late 1970s, Nordenström started to treat primary lung cancers by applying current between two platinum wire electrodes. The anode was placed centrally in the tumour and the cathode approximately twice the tumour diameter away from the anode. The applied voltage was about 10 V. The patients were treated under local anaesthesia, and they were seldom uncomfortable during the treatment. A preliminary trial on five patients was published in 1978 [4], and in his book [5], written in 1983, Nordenström reported the results from the treatment of 26 lung tumours in 20 patients. Many of these patients were, for various reasons, unsuitable for surgical, radiotherapeutic, or chemotherapeutic treatment. The average delivered coulomb dosage (current multiplied by time) was 80 C/cm of tumour diameter. Regression was obtained in 12 out of 26 tumours and no signs of regrowth were detected after a 2–5-year follow-up period. There was no reported lethal outcome of the therapy, although tumours with a diameter larger than 3 cm did not respond well to the treatment. Among the side effects, Nordenström noticed slight fever and local pain during the treatment.”

    So as far as I can tell, Nordenstrom used silver electrodes in some cases.

  22. Draal says:

    And the use of silver as an electrode is a not such a great idea since it will dissolve and stop working. Though, this may be the tie in to why Nordenstrom is cited as using silver to treat tumors.

  23. bfulgham says:

    The papers I have seen relating to the use of silver (and gold) nanoparticles or shells have been with the goal of targeted deployment of a drug (such as a chemotherapy agent) to tumor tissue, or to excite the nanoparticles using a UV laser or other electromagnetic field thereby generating heat and killing the tumor tissue. In neither case is any inherent therapeutic value being claimed for the gold or silver, rather they are used because their physical properties are suitable for these applications.

  24. shadowmouse says:

    Where’s the “DQ” filter on switch??

    Tony, shove off and go peddle your ‘supplements’ and bullshit elsewhere.

    ‘Member that your little buddy Cruella took a few trips into the big bad hospital?? Ohhhh, she had that evil western medicine pumped into her veins….multiple times over multiple days….

    GASP!!!

    Couldn’t your potions and silver and oleander keep the bad juju at bay like you claim to your victims, err, customers?

    Or how about how you got sidetracked from a bad back for weeks, why couldn’t you naturally heal yourself??

  25. shadowmouse says:

    Hey, DQ – aka “Dipshit Quack”

    Go away, peddle your poisons and bullcrap elsewhere.

    Tony Isaacs : Garbage Man

    Off the planet already.

  26. beatis says:

    “… Off the planet already…”

    If only that were true… *sigh*

  27. Mark Crislip says:

    I will speculate, as I have not yet the time to do the research, that them what turn blue with silver have increased absorbtion or decreased excretion or both of silver. It would explain the rarity of the reaction.

    They are mutants, and it would explain Kurt Wagner.

  28. chaoticidealism says:

    re. silver nanoparticles–
    I’ve been to a lecture by a researcher who was actually looking into silver nanoparticles, because of the problem of antibiotic-resistance; the idea they’re testing is that if you can make silver small enough, it can be poisonous to bacteria but not poisonous enough to kill you (basically, an antibiotic).

    The nanoparticles they’re talking about are smaller than can be easily manufactured, though; she complained actually a great deal about how much the nanoparticles she was working with cost her. It seems right now that the possibility of using nanoparticles is limited mostly by an chemical engineering problem–that is, how do you make them cheap enough, fast enough, to actually use as medicine?

    So what I think is that people using colloidal silver may be doing the equivalent of eating moldy bread and hoping it’ll cure them–it may be (or may not be) the right substance, but it definitely isn’t in the right form. Those nanoparticles our guest speaker had been having such fun with are a great deal smaller than the comparatively cheap colloidal silver, after all…

  29. yeahsurewhatever says:

    Most of Dquixote1217′s rant is actually plagiarized from this page:

    http://orionsyndicate910.wordpress.com/2009/01/11/health-food-scam-colloidal-silver/

    Searching that page for “NASA” will easily lead you to the comment in question.

    The NASA point is the one that struck me as the dumbest, and indeed there’s a comment further down that page pointing out that NASA has never used colloidal silver for anything. The drinking water is purified with iodine. Before that, chlorine.

  30. yeahsurewhatever says:

    And before someone mentions it, yes, it is possible to plagiarize yourself.

  31. yeahsurewhatever says:

    Another one of Isaacs’ claims is that “the EPA says that 90-95% of ingested silver particles are eliminated from the body within two days and 99% are gone within a week.”

    Well… no.

    http://www.epa.gov/IRIS/subst/0099.htm

    EPA’s IRIS is, surprisingly, the most comprehensive source for silver toxicology data on the interwebs, and that’s exactly where he pulled that number from — taking it out of context in the process, of course.

    First of all, that argyria ever occurs is evidence of the falsity of this. Argyria is permanent. Thus, the implication that all ingested silver is passed from the body is false.

    Second, those numbers come from a study of silver retention in moneys, rats, mice, and dogs ["Furchner et al. (1968)" is the citation], and only applies to the first three. Dogs retained more of it. The page also says that “Over a lifetime, a small but measurable amount of silver is accumulated by individuals having no excessive exposure.”

    Third, one of the big myths by pushers of colloidal silver is that there is some way to ingest silver that will not eventually result in argyria. This is not the case. Even used topically, if used often enough, you will get argyria. Note how “often enough” doesn’t necessarily require any single dose to be especially high. As the number of times you ingest (by any means) silver increases, the probability you will develop permanent skin discoloration approaches 1. Linear, no-threshold.

    Note that the average human ingests some silver from random dietary sources. Wait, the quack will say, these people don’t turn blue. Yes, I say, but that’s because they aren’t going to live the several lifetimes it would take for that minuscule amount of silver — micrograms per day — to turn them blue. Given physical immortality, it certainly would cause argyria eventually.

  32. yeahsurewhatever says:

    The IRIS page also says:

    Toxic effects of silver have been reported primarily for the cardiovascular and hepatic systems. Olcott (1950) administered 0.1% silver nitrate in drinking water to rats for 218 days. This exposure (about 89 mg/kg/day) resulted in a statistically significant increase in the incidence of ventricular hypertrophy. Upon autopsy, advanced pigmentation was observed in body organs, but the ventricular hypertrophy was not attributed to silver deposition.

    Hepatic necrosis and ultrastructural changes of the liver have been induced by silver administration to vitamin E and/or selenium deficient rats (Wagner et al., 1975; Diplock et al., 1967; Bunyan et al., 1968). Investigators have hypothesized that this toxicity is related to a silver-induced selenium deficiency that inhibits the synthesis of the seleno-enzyme glutathione peroxidase. In animals supplemented with selenium and/or vitamin E, exposures of silver as high as 140 mg/kg/day (100 mg Ag/L drinking water) were well- tolerated (Bunyan et al., 1968).

    So in summary, you wackjobs who want to push colloidal silver, could you do us all a favor and ingest it yourselves… for science? Even the LD50 is not well-attested. Focus on determining that first.

  33. Mark Crislip says:

    Dquixote1217

    I am evidently search challenged, but the only references I can find to human silver receptors discovered by hungarians is in comments sections of web posts.
    there are a lot of researcher named silver and silver is used as a stain and I keep being inundated with references

    could you be so kind as to post a link to the primary reference

  34. Mark Crislip says:

    Draal
    I went through all your references, and I do not think it changes the thrust of the post: colloidal silvers, as marketed, have no effects and no data.

    Nano silver, like all silver formulations, kills everything in the test tube but as best I can tell, the nano silvers are not the same as the products sold.

  35. shadowmouse says:

    Silly Dr. Crislip, doncha know you dont need references, or evidence or structured studies to show that a ‘treatment’ or ‘remedy’ actually works??

    You professionals with those years of training and experience don’t have the smarts to exploit others with that wonderful woo word:

    t-e-s-t-i-m-o-n-i-a-l-s

    Bow to the power of assholery to peddle worthless shit without a shred of integrity – little buddy-boy Tony is one of the crown princes of this garbage.

  36. overshoot says:

    I realize that it might be unrealistic to expect anything like basic toxicology from colloidial silver pushers, but then I’m sort of naive. How about:

    1) What is the LD100 concentration of AG+ ions for MRSA cultures?
    2) How does this compare to safe human exposures?

    I know, hopelessly simplistic. Still ….

  37. Maggie says:

    I’ve had an interesting experience with colloidal silver. I’ve battled Myalgic Encephalomyelitis (CFS) for decades and am now bedbound. I had been on low doses of CS for a couple of years (2 Tbsp/day). I decided to come off of it because of the expense. After being off of it several months, whatever infection I have in my chest spread dramatically and the pain was on the entire left side of my torso, then moved into my right lung and then I started hurting in the middle of my back from eating and drinking fluids. I got back on the CS and most of this went away. I decided to purchase a CS generator and make my own. After going way up on my intake (about 6 oz most days), I started having crawling sensations all over my body including in my eyes. This has lasted over 4mths. It is some kind of dieoff rxn from pathogens. My Dr agrees. I am concerned about argyria, but I’m more concerned about dying from runaway infections, which does happen with this disease. Since Drs don’t have the appropriate tests to diagnose what’s wrong or to treat it, I feel I have no choice. After my experience, there is just no doubt that it works.

  38. Draal says:

    Mark, I was making sure you were aware of some additional info. None of the references I gave were of special importance, just that there is on going research in silver nanoparticles (the closest thing I could find to ‘colloidal’). I copied and pasted the first set of 2009 articles that popped up in the search engine. I think it’s best to be informed of the literature that a snake oil salesman might use to justify the use of colloidal silver.
    ————————
    As pointed out by chaoticidealism, nanoparticles are a bitch to manufacture. The goal of any nanoparticle manufacturing process is make tiny particles that are of uniform shape, size and composition. Grinding up a chunk of silver won’t come close to the quality that these researchers are looking for.
    ————————
    My gut feeling is that silver has no where near the toxicity of lead or mercury. Obviously, sellers of colloidal silver have taken advantage of this as support of it’s safety. The EPA report on silver http://www.epa.gov/IRIS/subst/0099.htm doesn’t find conclusive evidence of its toxicity either, though the data available is utterly incomplete. I conclude that colloidal silver in itself is relatively harmless. It is basically throwing good money down the drain, or rather down the throat. It’s use to treat medical conditions however is particularly dangerous since the user is avoiding proven medical treatments.

    -Dr. Draal, Ph.D.

  39. beatis says:

    Trying to find evidence for the efficacy of colloidal silver is futile. According to the Curezone, it’s all one big conspiracy: the FDA, major drug companies such as Merck and Pfizer and environmental groups are all in cahoots to “regulate colloidal silver products into oblivion.” So any evidence proving in favour of colloidal silver has probably been “regulated” into oblivion as well. Searching for evidence is therefore useless and even Tony Isaacs himself finding it, is highly unlikely.

  40. Maggie says:

    “It’s use to treat medical conditions is particularly dangerous since the user is avoiding proven medical treatments.”

    What’s dangerous is when the medical community doesn’t have the ability to diagnose underlying infections and they get out of control. The tests are a joke. I know in this disease if people have PCR testing done in a research facility, most of the infections show up, but how many people have access to that type of testing? Doctors will not treat you unless they have a test to go by. They can’t treat what they don’t know is there. They’ve recently found a new type of parasite (Cryptostrongylus Pulmoni) in this disease for which I believe there is no good test for yet. It took a huge number of hours to discover it. They’ve also recently found a new retrovirus in ME/CFS called XMRV. I would bet many of our chronic diseases have underlying pathogens.

    There are many anecdotal reports of people getting better from MS, MRSA and other illnesses with the use of CS. Many may disregard anecdotal reports, but when someone has been extremely ill and does improve, I will take their word for it, especially after my experience. The medical community has failed miserably in treating many chronic diseases, so is it any wonder that people are having to resort to things like colloidal silver? I just wish I’d known about it in the beginning of my illness.

  41. TsuDhoNimh says:

    From Nordenstrom’s book, he’s using silver-silver chloride electrodes with potassium chloride bridges … it’s just a reference electrode. It is used, not because there is something unique about silver, but because it’s a well-known easy-to-make reference for pH and electrical differential measurements in solutions..

    Looking at the experimental setup, he’s probably reading the effect of tissue density and changing water concentrations between tissues. Cancers are denser and slightly “dryer” than fatty tissue.

    He was also doing his research in the late 1970s … we have far better diagnostic methods now: faster and more precise.

  42. The Blind Watchmaker says:

    The topic started out talking about colloidal silver and flu. Silver may kill some bacteria in vitro. What about viruses? Let alone the claim that takining it in vivo will cure flu. Evidence aside, how about plausiblility?

  43. KT says:

    Well, if anecdotal evidence is what it takes, I was at the market with a friend last week and she took an elixir that was supposed to prevent her from getting the cold and flu. One of the ingredients was “Silverbiotic” which is a silver nano-particle thingie.

    She got sick with a cold the next day.

  44. beatis says:

    To effectively boost the immune system, silver nano-particle thingies have to be taken starting at least 6 months prior to any colds, flus or whatever, if not earlier. As any woo pusher can tell you, only science-based idiots would expect to be completely hunky-dory in just one day. Boosting the immune system takes a never ending amount of time, effort and money.

  45. Prometheus says:

    “Beatis” claims:

    “Boosting the immune system takes a never ending amount of time, effort and money.”

    Brother! You are definitely telling the truth!

    “Boosting” the immune system takes “…a never ending amount of time, effort and money” – if you do it the “alternative” way.

    The fastest, simplest and most effective way to “boost” your immune system vis a vis influenza is to get the vaccination. Those inactivated virus particles (or attenuated, if you get FluMist) will “boost” your immune system in just the right way to keep you from coming down with the influenza virus they are derived from.

    Anyone who talks about indiscriminately “boosting” the immune system is clearly unaware of the serious – and often deadly – consequences of a “boosted” immune system (see: anaphylaxis, autoimmune disorders, etc.).

    While silver ions have a powerful anti-bacterial (and, in some situations, anti-viral) effect, un-ionized colloidal silver is pretty much non-toxic – to humans, bacteria and viruses. It is only the amount of silver that becomes ionized that can exert an anti-microbial (actually, anti-life, since it affects all cells pretty much equally) effect.

    The only way that colloidal silver – taken internally – could “kill” viruses and bacteria would be for the ionized silver concentration to exceed that compatible for life – including the life of the human host.

    So, you can’t have it both ways – silver is either anti-bacterial/anti-viral and toxic or it is safe and useless. Take your choice.

    Prometheus

  46. I meet the more than occasional person who rants about the dangers of mercury in dental amalgam but elsewhere touts the efficacy of colloidal silver. When I ask why the silver particles ground off fillings don’t boost the immune system, fight infection, prevent colds and all the other things that silver is supposed to do I get one of three reactions: no response at all, immediate non sequitur or change of subject, or a restatement of the dangers of heavy metals like mercury.

    As an aside, I have had nibbles when I have asked about the possibility of heavy metal damage arising from the use of lithium carbonate to treat mania but this usually just results in a flurry of anti-psychiatry mouthfoam.

  47. yeahsurewhatever says:

    You’re aware that lithium is not a heavy metal, right? Not by any chemical definition of the term which has ever been used. In fact, it is the lightest metal by most definitions, except for the case where hydrogen can act as a metal.

    Not that “heavy metal” is a very meaningful term at all.

  48. beatis says:

    “…Boosting” the immune system takes “…a never ending amount of time, effort and money” – if you do it the “alternative” way…”
    You’re quite right ofcourse.

  49. Draal says:

    OMG! Metals are bad for you!
    Throw out your table salt, it contains SODIUM!
    Don’t eat that banana, it contains POTASSIUM!
    Put that steak down, it has IRON!
    Don’t take that Sentrum, it has ZINC and MAGNESIUM!
    That glass of milk will kill you, it has CALCIUM!
    -end sarcasm. Ugh, it’s all a matter of dosage and form.
    ———————–

    Heavy metal is a very important term when it comes to air and water pollutants and the regulation thereof. Maybe we should go back to the days were there was no EPA, leaded gas, and companies and research universities dumped their hazardous material down the drain. maybe not.

  50. Jeff says:

    Prometheus: “It is only the amount of silver that becomes ionized that can exert an anti-microbial (actually, anti-life, since it affects all cells pretty much equally) effect.”

    According to the author of the article I linked to above:

    “Silver ions bind to cell walls and are then absorbed into the single-cell bacteria or fungus wherein they interfere with cellular energy production and kill the organism. The fermentation system of energy production used by these single cell organisms is different than the aerobic energy producing system of human cells, which are not so affected by silver. This means silver is not toxic to human cells.”

    Is this not correct?

  51. daniel says:

    Click here for Scientific “PROOF”
    re virulent pathogens

    Sometimes unintended quote marks end up being absolutely required.

  52. Oroboros says:

    I had a housemate who strongly believed in colloidal silver. He was so enthusiastic about it that I had to hide any sign of illness lest he push it on me.

    It would be nice if some serious studies were done and results published, to put the paranoid theories to rest (as if any evidence will be enough).

    Or maybe it will reveal something beneficial. I’m an open-minded skeptic.

  53. @yeahsurewhatever

    Do I really have to use … tags?

    Of course I know that lithium isn’t a “heavy metal”. The point I was making is that the term is meaningless but of enormous value to quackonauts.

  54. Mark Crislip says:

    Quackonauts. Love it. Have to steal that as well (SCAM’s was the first I believe).

  55. rosemary says:

    I have in front of me hardcopy of NNFA TODAY, 1997, p. 7 “Science News”, a rather misleading title, if you ask me, since NNFA, Natural Nutritional Foods Association, is a dietary supplement trade organization and supplements are about as far from science as one can get. It states, “NNFA Today contacted the Karolinska and received a reply from Bjorn Nordenstrom, M.D., PhD, who stated, ‘I have never used colloidal silver and I have not published anything about this drug.’”

    As I’ve stated on my webpage, http://www.rosemaryjacobs.com, silver is a fraud. Not only is there no evidence to indicate that ingesting it offers benefits, but the salesmen who make those claims constantly make false statements to support them such as the one about Dr. Nordenstrom’s successful use of silver in treating cancer. They quote old quacks pretending that they are alive and well and working today, misquote reputable researchers and selective report everything good they can find about silver while ignoring everything bad even when the good and the bad appear on the same page!

    There are lists of the 650 diseases and conditions “silver has been used effectively against” which appear to me to come from very old quack literature, from the early 1900s, most of which I have.

    I suspect that the problem with the nurse is twofold. First, she is very gullible and believes whatever people tell her. Second, she doesn’t understand that subjective evidence is highly unreliable. Neither does she understand the difference between a disinfectant and an antibiotic. Silver drugs were used before the advent of antibiotics. They didn’t work but they discolored lots of people.

    It is sad that the general public has been so poorly educated that they don’t understand the need for objective evidence, but tragic that a nurse doesn’t. Unfortunately, there are others like her.

  56. rosemary says:

    When I first decided to post a webpage about the silver fraud, I tried to hire someone to write it for me because I find it very difficult to write narrative and am not good at it. Journalists wouldn’t do it because they were afraid of the “science”. I thought, What science? It hasn’t gotten that far. You make a claim. You substantiate it. If you can’t and you continue making it to sell a product, that is fraud, not science.

    Doctors wouldn’t write the piece because they were afraid of me. Well maybe. Actually I’m not sure why they wouldn’t do it. One I contacted had written a fantastic article on silver and argyria in an obscure med. journal. It included the pharmacology and the emotional aspect of disfigurement. When I wrote to him, he responded that he didn’t have the knowledge or strength to help me. (This is from memory. I’m not looking at his letter.) I laughed and felt a little sorry for him. I thought to myself, “Oh, for heavens sake. I don’t look that bad and your an MD! You’ve seen worse. Your article is fantastic, just what the world needs to see.” I think though that when he wrote his article it never occurred to him that anyone with argyria would read it and he described argyric people as looking like the walking dead, but he wasn’t the first and he won’t be the last to put that in a med. journal article. It is true. Sleeping argyric people have been mistaken for corpses.

    What I’m trying to get around to is that quackery is fraud not science and fraud is easy to identify. When I first heard the claims made for silver supplements, I thought a terrible mistake had been made and asked the salesmen how they knew they were true. I told them my story and gave them med. lit. to back my claims. I wanted publishers who had published silver promo material to print a short letter from me warning about argyria. They wouldn’t do it, but they continued to make their claims about safety and efficacy. I quickly decided that it wasn’t a mistake. It was fraud. It was intended to make money, lots of it.

    To oversimplify, if you go to a showroom to look at a model car that the dealer’s ads say gets 40 mi/gal and the salesman claims that is true and you find and present them with EPA figures showing that it only gets 15 mi/gal, you may think that the dealer made a mistake, a whopper, yes, but a mistake. But if he continues advertising 40 and claiming it without presenting evidence from the EPA that the agency is the one that made the mistake, you know that the dealer is deliberately making a fraudulent claim. The more such instances you find of his presenting erroneous statements as facts, the surer you are.

    In exposing supplements the smart marketers want you to get deeply into the science or lack there of because they know that will confuse the public, their potential customers, into thinking that there really is something there and that maybe the experts disagree. There is one silver site that has pages and pages of chemical definitions that can be cut and pasted from a chemistry dictionary, but amazingly a lot of people in the general public never realize that till I point it out. Because of all the chemical terms they mistake it for a scientific site!

    Dr. Crislip may I suggest that as an experiment you give the link to my website, http://www.rosemaryjacobs.com, to the nurse promoting silver and let me know what her reaction is if any. It will be educational.

  57. mike150160 says:

    Kudos for the nightcrawler ref though Mark

  58. Chris says:

    backer, the abstract with the title “A Preliminary Assessment of Silver Nanoparticle Inhibition of Monkeypox Virus Plaque Formation” is an in vitro study. Bleach is also effective in vitro in killing viruses, that doesn’t mean you are going to drink it.

    Now where are the malaria studies you promised? And don’t bring up the same one that appears almost intact over the years, but with a different brand of colloidal silver. Make sure it is a real research paper, not an advertisement nor a poster preesntation.

    Oh, and this is where the topic belongs.

  59. Chris says:

    backer, did you even look at this website you posted:
    http://www.bioportfolio.com/search/silver_sol_32_ppm_FDA_approved_drug.html ?

    You claimed it showed proof that some product called “Silver Sol” was approved by the FDA. But it was just links of a search, on all sortes of stuff… but not their product, check it out:

    11900 II 3/22/1996 MEITO SANGYO CO LTD “IRON OXIDE/CARBOXYDEXTRAN SOL MANUFACTURED IN ….. SLOVAKIA” 12405 II 3/5/1997 SICOR SPA “AD-32 BULK DRUG
    SUBSTANCE, …… TOTAL PETROCHEMICALS RANDOM COPOLYMER POLYPROPYLENE PPM R021
    14882 II …… 18184 III 3/7/2005 AMPACET CORP “12083 SILVER POLYETHYLENE
    MASTERBATCH AS …

    and

    Dentifrices containing 850 to 1150 ppm theoretical total fluorine in a gel or paste dosage form. Sodium fluoride 0.188 to …. the animal caries reduction
    test, and either the enamel sol- … tioning the FDA for approval to conduct
    alternative …… residual caries treated with silver fluoride and glass
    ionomer …

    and

    Any drug may be marketed only after approval by the FDA. The drug …… This increase is due to the facility collecting silver oxide …

    Are any of those proof of Silver Sol being FDA approved? Did you even read the page?

  60. Chris says:

    weing (on the Measles thread):

    Now you sound like a big-pharma shill for Medihoney.
    I would want comparison studies. If they are available and look good, I would have no problem with it. Most of the time I refer tough to treat wounds to the wound clinic around the corner.

    Dr. Crislip mentioned honey above as a way to denigrate the usefulness of silver sulfadiazine. He actually said:

    Various formulations of silver have been tried to aid wound healing, with little effect and Silvadene, silver sulfadiazine, has long been used to treat burns, although its efficacy, when compared to everything from honey to aloe, is often found wanting.

    Followed by:

    I will admit to an affinity to suggesting honey and or sugar for chronic wounds; that should be a topic for another post.

    I bet that a Quackcast about honey will be very fun, though I will wait patiently.

    The world needs more Mark Crislip.

  61. backer says:

    chris-

    this is what crislip said that i was referring to…

    “I will admit to an affinity to suggesting honey and or sugar for chronic wounds; that should be a topic for another post.”

    sounds to me like he agrees with it’s use, and his quackcast might not be to your liking.

  62. Chris says:

    So you are claiming psychic powers? I said it would be fun to listen to, and I actually understood the part where he said honey is more effective than the silver stuff.

    I also know the effectiveness of sugar in food preservation, and the role of ions in osmosis, I read that he was comparing the effectiveness of silver and several other things (like aloe!), and I have read some literature on honey and wounds. My psychic powers say that you will be wrong.

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